Gas safety check flexibility?

by Readers Question

15:14 PM, 5th November 2018
About A week ago

Gas safety check flexibility?

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Gas safety check flexibility?

One of the changes is:- “introduce a degree of flexibility to the timing of landlords’ annual gas safety checks. This change means that landlords can carry out the annual gas safety check in the two months before the due date and retain the existing expiry date. This avoids landlords waiting until the last minute and not gaining access, or having to shorten the annual cycle check to comply with the law.”

In practical terms, I wondered what method the person doing the check is supposed to use to establish the current expiry date, which he/she needs to post-date the new certificate. Am I expected to send him/her a copy of the existing CP-12 or is there some central database like with MoTs?

I have had one gas man tell me he could not pre or post date the CP-12, and neither of the two I spoke to were aware of the change, which came in April 2018.

Of course there’s no way I can see to ‘phone HSE and their enquiry portal helpfully informs me I might wait 30 days for a reply.

Doug



Comments

Rob Crawford

17:46 PM, 5th November 2018
About A week ago

Hi Doug, you cannot expect the gas safe engineer to post date a gas safe check. He must state the date that the check was completed. There is no "next due" date box on any of the certificates that I have and I don't see that establishing the next due date as an engineers responsibility. This is a landlord responsibility. When I have a check carried out early and within the permitted two months, I record the date of the next check (12 months from the previous due date) and note this on the certificate that I initial. It's important that the previous certificate is kept for reference purposes.

Robert Mellors

17:59 PM, 5th November 2018
About A week ago

I also had to inform my gas engineer about this 2 month flexibility as they were not aware of it. On the certificates I get there is a box for when the next certificate is due (i.e. the renewal date) and that should presumably be 12 months from the date the last certificate expired (even if this is not the same as 12 months from the date of the actual inspection)?

Ian Narbeth

9:53 AM, 6th November 2018
About A week ago

This needs to be publicised. The gas check is akin to an MOT which also operates prospectively.
As for tenants refusing access for the check to be done, it appears there is no offence with an unlimited fine and up to 5 years in prison. Surely, not allowing a gas safety check and potentially putting your family and visitors in mortal danger is more serious than a landlord renting a property to someone without the right to rent?
You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

Gunga Din

10:05 AM, 6th November 2018
About A week ago

Rob, I did indeed ambiguously write "post date the new certificate" but meant - enter a due date for the next check 12 months from the existing expiry date. There's no question of entering a "check done date" other than actual, but with MoTs there's an established process and both "done date" and new expiry date are on the form. Pen-amending a CP-12 form seems a bit unofficial although if questioned I suppose one will be able to plead compliance with the new HSE rule.
I was stunned to get a reply from HSE a couple of days after emailing them, but it was a cut-and-paste canned reply which admonished me that all the answers can be found in blah blah blah, and addressed none of the questions I asked them.
I have three different CP-12 formats in my collection and none have the facility to enter an expiry date independent of the "done" date.
Robert, which organisation produces the forms you receive?

Here's the HSE page:-

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l56.htm

Many Thanks - Gunga Din

Annie Landlord

10:07 AM, 6th November 2018
About A week ago

My certs have a space for next due date too. I have two due in December so I'm going to ask my gasman to do them soon. Be interesting to see if he is aware of the new regs

Yvette Newbury

10:19 AM, 6th November 2018
About A week ago

Our gas safety checks were all done in August as the checks had become scattered across August - October. My gas engineer was not aware of the legislation so I had to search for it on his association website and show it to him. Then he inserted the actual date they were conducted but put the renewal date as if the test had been carried out at the end date of the present certificate (of course I had to show him the copies of the previous gas safety certificate to confirm the date). He inserted this in a comments section on the certificate. So next year I can either have them all done on one day (which is what I will probably do), but have some leeway if for some reason I want to spread them over a number of days.

Rob Crawford

10:47 AM, 6th November 2018
About A week ago

Reply to the comment left by Gunga Din at 06/11/2018 - 10:05
My gas safe engineer uses the old "Regin" certificates that are triplicated and filled in by hand. I have seen computer generated certificates (such as used by British Gas) that have an expiry date box. This link goes to the relevant section in the gas safe register via Association of Local Landlords (Wessex) website to show your engineer: http://www.allwessex.co.uk/gas-safe-checks-boilers-flues-amendments/

Clint

12:20 PM, 6th November 2018
About A week ago

My gas engineer did not know about the new legislation and agreed after checking up. He inserted the date of test as that of the existing one which gave me more than 12 months to next test.
It did cause confusion as, I had a tenant move in and I provided him with the new certificate. The tenant pointed out that he moved in before the gas safety test was done, after which, I informed him of the way it worked with the new legislation, and dug out the old safety test and provided him with the copy. I am not sure if he believed me, but accepted that the place was safe based on the old certificate.
I think in future, I will have to ask my engineer to insert the date of test, and write date of next test which would be date of existing test plus one year.

Seething Landlord

12:25 PM, 6th November 2018
About A week ago

Extract from https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/help-and-advice/renting-a-property/information-for-landlords/
"Gas safety checks: gas appliances and flues must be safety checked annually by a qualified Gas Safe registered engineer. New regulations introduced in April 2018 allow a landlord to arrange for a gas safety check to be carried out any time from 10-12 calendar months after the previous check whilst still preserving the original check expiry date. Where a gas safety check is carried out less than 10 months or more than 12 months after the previous gas safety check this will have the effect of ‘resetting the clock’ and the new deadline date will now be 12 months from the date of this latest gas safety check. Landlords are not responsible for safety checks on gas appliances owned by the tenant or any flues that solely connects to tenants own gas appliances.
Record: a record of the annual gas safety check should be provided to your existing tenants within 28 days of completion, or to new tenants upon the start of their tenancy. If the rental period is less than 28 days at a time you may display a copy of the record in a prominent position within the dwelling. You’ll need to keep copies of the record for at least 2 years. If you have benefited from the new regulations allowing flexibility in timing of gas safety checks, records must be kept until two further gas safety checks have been carried out."

Like others, I found that the gas engineers were not aware of the change but this guidance seems to confirm that the certificate must still show the date of the actual inspection and it is for the landlord to keep sufficient records to show that he has complied with the regulations. I do not understand the final sentence however. The time window for inspections is based upon the expiry date of the last certificate before the flexibility was introduced so I would have thought it necessary to retain that certificate for as long as you want that date to be preserved.
Keeping records for two years is a separate requirement and will not provide the evidence that might be needed to prove compliance with the timescale.

The regulations make the position clearer
"“Determination of date when next safety check due under regulation 36(3)
36A.—(1) Where a safety check of an appliance or a flue made in accordance with regulation 36(3)(a) or (b) is or was completed within the period of 2 months ending withthe deadline date, that check is to be treated for the purposes of regulation 36(3)(a) and (b)as having been made on the deadline date."

Martin Green

13:50 PM, 6th November 2018
About A week ago

I use a company 24/7 home rescue to do my gas safety certs and they're not aware of the change. I explained and showed them references but insisted they can only issue a cert that expires 12 months from inspection

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