New EICR to cover any changes made by outgoing tenant?

New EICR to cover any changes made by outgoing tenant?

10:00 AM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago 99

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If a tenant moves on should I get a new EICR? I presume if you don’t then the landlord becomes legally responsible for any change that may have occurred during the previous tenancy?

I know it’s not normal for tenants to change the wiring, but they do change light fittings and adjust wiring sometimes without informing the landlord.

Is this an area landlords could get caught out with?

Many thanks

Peter



Comments

by Gary Nock

10:46 AM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

The legislation states every 5 years or less if recommended by a qualified electrician. Some trade bodies try and get their members to put on " or change of tenancy" but if the sparky wants to keep working for you he won't. In practice a detailed inventory should show any obvious wiring changes, and it should also check for scorching, loose sockets etc. We as an agency also use a plug socket tester and show it being used during the inventory, with the phrase " wiring and consumer unit visually checked for any changes, damage or scorching. None found". This then shows due diligence in relation to the continued safety of the property. If in doubt, and you see something you are not happy with, then get another EICR done.

by Chris @ Possession Friend

11:19 AM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Gary Nock at 04/05/2021 - 10:46
Funny you should say Gary,
I had one carried out recently by a recommended electrician. Their work was prompt and reasonably charged but the EICR said 5 years or upon change of tenant or landlord.
I ( nicely, but firmly ) questioned this and at first they said they had to write that as it was ' the law '
I said I was quite conversant with the regulations, and asked them to indicate which specific regulation referred to such.
They responded with an amended certificate showing 5 years !!!
I thanked them and said that I was happy with their work and would willingly refer other landlords to them, PROVIDED they gave the same certificate as the latest they had just issued to me.
( and this was in Wales, where EICR's are not legally required - Yet ! )

by Gary Nock

11:28 AM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Chris @ Possession Friend at 04/05/2021 - 11:19
Hi Chris - yes it's the NICEIC and NAPIT seeking to further their own interests and that of their members. They sought to cover it when I challenged them by saying "It's our recommendation as allowed by the regulations" to which I replied " And it's my money and I won't employ any of your members who follow it"

by Seething Landlord

12:12 PM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

To answer the original question, the landlord has a continuing strict duty to ensure that the electrical safety standards are met at all times when the property is let. How are you expected to do that? Don't ask me, I have no idea, it's totally nonsensical but that is what the Regulations say.

Having a valid EICR is a separate requirement.

It is similar in principle to the MOT test, which only has to be carried out annually but does not prove that the vehicle meets the requirements apart from at the time of testing. You could be prosecuted if you are stopped the next day and a defect is found.

by Seething Landlord

12:28 PM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Gary Nock at 04/05/2021 - 11:28Hi Gary and Chris. I instructed an electrician to do 4 EICRs and had a preliminary chat with him on arrival at the first property during which he mentioned that the next tests would be after a specified time depending on the general condition or on change of tenancy. I pointed out that there is no requirement for a further test on change of tenancy, a visual inspection by the landlord would be sufficient, and all the certificates were issued accordingly i.e. next inspection in 5 years.
His firm is registered with NICEIC - nice little earner if they get away with it.

by Chris @ Possession Friend

12:47 PM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 04/05/2021 - 12:12
Quite Seething,
But the point being made by Gary and myself, was that an MOT garage doesn't write on the expiry date of your MOT, - 12 months or upon change of ownership.

by Gary Nock

13:10 PM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Chris @ Possession Friend at 04/05/2021 - 12:47
Exactly Chris.

by Mike

15:06 PM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

We have to draw a line between insanity and common sense, No I won't be seeking another EICR having just got one done two weeks ago and my tenant is leaving, so either I will now be seeking to sell up or if failing to get a good price, continue with renting it for a while more, and there won't be another EICR until 5 years later. Thanks, must keep things in perspective. Safety is one thing, madness is another, both cannot be combined.

by Seething Landlord

15:10 PM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Chris @ Possession Friend at 04/05/2021 - 12:47
Precisely, that's why I made it clear that I was answering the original question rather than commenting on the point made by you and Gary, with which I totally agree.

The point about the MOT certificate is that it does nothing more than confirm that your vehicle met the safety requirements at the time of the test. You still have a continuing responsibility to ensure that your vehicle is roadworthy at all times. It is in that respect that the EICR is similar.

by Paul landlord

22:23 PM, 4th May 2021, About 2 months ago

Well you all seem to be experts in this I'm impressed!!

Just to qualify my comments here I will just put forward that I am a portfolio landlord of 42 properties since 1992 and also a registered electrician of many years- a member of 'the boys club' that people on these now boring threads refer to us as.

I would refer you firstly to chapter 65 (periodic inspection and testing) of the 18th edition BS7671 wiring regs book, particularly regulations 652.1- 653.6. This leads onto their expansion book on inspection and testing by the IET and British Standards entitled Guidance Note 3 and what we are governed by.

If I can refer you to page 87 of GN3, table 2 gives the details of inspection periods for all classes of buildings and uses.

For our purposes we look at "Domestic accommodation rented houses and flats".

For these premises a "routine check" should be carried out annually.

Under "Maximum period between inspections and testing" it says and I quote "Change of occupancy/ 5years".

So there you go. Thats what British Standards says about your inspection and testing regimen and periods.

Of course nobody does actually do new EICRs on change of occupancy- even though they should and I'm not claiming to be a saint on this either.

But just because people dont do it, it doesn't mean to say you dont have a responsibility and liability in the event of an incident- so consider your buildings insurance and also your liberty too if the unthinkable happens on your watch.

I'm a Stroma member now bought out by NAPIT and we have no control over the template wording of the report (including the bit after our entry years of inspection period . The software gets us to upload selected details, figures and observations in a wizard format and then produces a .pdf report.

Just thought id give the 'armchair experts' and 'know all know nowts' out there the correct legislation with referencing for transparency.

As for those sticking a £5 socket tester in a socket during check in- well that gave me a good belly laugh- seriously!! What does that prove?? I've got £1800 worth of serious test instrumentation checked and certified by a specialist lab with traceability annually. Thats like coming out with a pea shooter against a fully automatic rifle!! Meaningless

And yes tenants can screw up your previously compliant installation during their tenancy and it not be obvious.

5 years ago I had EICRd a property thoroughly after doing major upgrading work on the property and electrical installation. Thought it would be a breeze this time but it was a mare. Same tenant by the way. The father of the tenant had done some diy swapping of sockets, switches and light fittings for metal types. Done so badly not only was it non compliant but positively dangerous. Took me many hours to rectify and make safe and compliant. Needless to say I wasn't happy. Looked perfectly ok on the surface- and a socket tester would have said ok too ha!! It was only on dismantling that the poor state of the changes showed me why i was getting such spurious results at the consumer unit.

So the choice is ours but ultimately the liability is with us.

And by the way can we drop the 'nice little earner' stuff etc. It really has become so boring after this past year or so. As landlords we are all 'rogues, fat cats and the devil incarnate' aren't we?? There are rogues in every industry but lets not tar everyone with that brush eh?

And by the way I don't do EICRs for anyone else apart from my own properties since it became law. Got sick very quickly of all the a*shole landlords that know my job better than me apparently who in reality know 'sweet fanny adams'. Not worth the grief.

Hope this helps

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