New EICR to cover any changes made by outgoing tenant?

New EICR to cover any changes made by outgoing tenant?

10:00 AM, 4th May 2021, About 9 months ago 139

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If a tenant moves on should I get a new EICR? I presume if you don’t then the landlord becomes legally responsible for any change that may have occurred during the previous tenancy?

I know it’s not normal for tenants to change the wiring, but they do change light fittings and adjust wiring sometimes without informing the landlord.

Is this an area landlords could get caught out with?

Many thanks

Peter



Comments

by Daveknowstheregs

21:31 PM, 10th January 2022, About 2 weeks ago

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 10/01/2022 - 21:07
Tbh mate I’ve now lost the will to live on this, but my black and white stand on it (and NAPIT’s) is that an EICR has the qualified experienced inspector’s signature AND only his recommended date of next inspection. This is the inspector’s signed declaration. The landlord has no clue!

Michael’s understanding is that an EICR has the qualified experienced inspector’s signature AND a clueless unqualified landlord’s recommended date of next inspection (totally laughable, but Michael was apparently serious!).

by michaelwgroves

22:13 PM, 10th January 2022, About 2 weeks ago

Reply to the comment left by Daveknowstheregs at 10/01/2022 - 21:31Please refrain from cheap shots, it does not help the debate, but please stay with the debate, we all have a vested interest in concluding what is correct. You are passionate about your belief, please see it through.
Back to the matter in hand, you are choosing to accept an unvetted telephone call with the NAPIT helpdesk, over a NAPIT publication.
Irrespective of the question, surly a publication carries more weight?
Furthermore, this publication is inline with Government guidance and NRLA guidance.
These are all published regulations anyone can read online, why do you disagree with these publications?

by Daveknowstheregs

0:44 AM, 11th January 2022, About 2 weeks ago

Going back to the original question asked by Peter, vested interests or not. My own experience as an electrician tells me that Paul The Landlord nailed your answer correctly. Paul isn’t at all bothered about working for another landlord, so he has no vested interest. He may have offended some landlord, but so what? I personally aren’t bothered about working for a landlord, although I do work for landlords. Those landlords trust my work and my opinion. I don’t try to rip them off. I don’t put “change of occupancy” on my reports, but this may be wrong according to the word of BS7671, the regulations. Tenants could leave a property unsafe, this happens every week. How does a landlord prove otherwise? Maybe an EICR? I don’t give 1 year recommendation on my reports, but I am within my rights to do so. If it is relevant to safety of the installation, ie I witness an issue that requires monitoring annually, then 1 year would be recommended on my report, unless the issue is resolved by the landlord. Only the inspector decides what to recommend on HIS report. Only the inspector’s signature is on HIS report. This is HIS legally binding declaration, that HIS report is correct, to the best of HIS knowledge.

The landlord, the Pope, nor anybody else can input what goes on the inspector’s signed report. That’s the rules and it’s black and white.

If you want a different report, then ask a different inspector to sign a different report.

If the landlord wants a say on a report, then the landlord can sign his OWN report.

by michaelwgroves

10:31 AM, 11th January 2022, About 2 weeks ago

I've spoken to NAPIT and asked them to clarify the guidance in their publication.
They have confirmed 'Daveknowstheregs' is correct, it IS the electricians decision.
They are saying the wording in the publication allows the landlord to negotiate with the electrician, but the final say on the interval is the electricians responsibility. The landlords responsibility is ensuring the frequency is adhered to.
I think the wording is ambiguous, but this does make more sense.
Here is a good article written jointly by NRLA and NAPIT, and addresses the change of occupancy. But NAPIT further clarified, you would only use the wording 'change of occupancy' if you have not completed a full risk assessment.
https://www.nrla.org.uk/resources/looking-after-your-property/electrical-safety-inspections

So in short, what ever interval your electrician gives you, you will have to accept it. But the wording 'or change of occupancy' does not invalidate your EICR.

Thanks 'Daveknowstheregs' for sticking with the debate.

by Seething Landlord

10:56 AM, 11th January 2022, About 2 weeks ago

Reply to the comment left by michaelwgroves at 11/01/2022 - 10:31Thanks for posting that link - the guidance confirms most of what I have been saying throughout this debate and in particular highlights that "on change of tenancy" (they have adopted "tenancy" in place of "occupancy") should not be included:
Copied from the guidance:
"Do I need to get a new electrical safety certificate every time a new tenant moves in?
The regulations specify that an electrical safety certificate will be valid for 5 years, or a shorter time frame if the inspector deems it necessary. This means that generally you should only need to get one certificate every five years and this certificate can be supplied to any new tenants during that period.
The NRLA has received a number of reports of EICRs stating that the report is valid for '5 years or until change of tenancy.' This is incorrect as the regulations require the tests are performed at regular specified intervals rather than being triggered by a change of tenancy. As a result, a change of tenancy should not invalidate an EICR.
The NRLA has raised this with MHCLG and the appropriate trade bodies to ensure that as many electricians as possible are aware of this. However, to avoid issues it is best you speak to the person providing the report to make sure they are aware of this."

by Mick Roberts

11:23 AM, 11th January 2022, About 2 weeks ago

I tell u all what is clear.
There is a disagreement ha ha.
And the end loser/or gainer if saves their life, is the tenant. Loser if Landlord has to pay every year.

More rules coming soon for u all to disagree on, the Carbon Monoxide detectors. Thank u for putting them in. but I now want hard -wired. Interlinked.

Solid internal doors on NORMAL houses for accreditation for Licensing in Nottingham I kid u not. Govt want these people in New Builds, it ain't gonna' be cheap renting any more.

by michaelwgroves

11:26 AM, 11th January 2022, About 2 weeks ago

Reply to the comment left by Mick Roberts at 11/01/2022 - 11:23
Vokera have them built into their boilers 🙂

by Mick Roberts

11:55 AM, 11th January 2022, About 2 weeks ago

Reply to the comment left by michaelwgroves at 11/01/2022 - 11:26
Ooh interesting. Till some Judge says U want me to rely on the boiler monitoring it's own danger Mr Roberts? No, guilty as charged.

I had one yesterday, for years plumber been telling my Combi's can't be dangerous. Yesterday plumber said top cap missing out flue where plumber puts his analyzer thing in. Gal did say last week she heard some'at drop on floor.
I said would that have been dangerous. He said Yes more so in bedroom.
So Combi's can be dangerous then. And I've been fitting (plumber has) in my houses 24 years.

by Mike

15:35 PM, 11th January 2022, About 2 weeks ago

Back a few years ago, I engaged an Electrician, he spent less than 30 minutes and checked a few sockets and went through inspecting all lighting points, and was satisfied with everything but asked me if I knew how long was the last time the house was rewired, I said I don't know but I have owned it for nearly 20 years and there had been no electrical failures or problems, and I changed the consumer unit myself, most of the cables were in white sheath par a few I had renewed were in latest spec grey cable, mainly Fire Alarm supply cable, because of the age of the cables he determined that next inspection he recommended would be in 3 years. But I was under the impression these EICR are for a minimum of 5 years intervals, so i did not know I was letting my house for two years without a valid EICR, so I was horrified why I was given a 3 years interval just based on blind guess without actually determining the actual state of wiring.

So I engaged another different electrician, who did more extensive inspection and determined that my installation was good as gold and next inspection date 5 years.

I have drawn my own conclusion, that It all depends on an the experience and expertise of an electrician and not on the state of wiring.

Later on

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