Straw Poll to combat further government attacks – Please help

Straw Poll to combat further government attacks – Please help

9:14 AM, 9th October 2018, About 5 years ago 84

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There is now the possibility of the Government extending its fiscal attack on the PRS, Click Here, by scrapping lettings relief of up to £40,000 and reducing the PPR period from 18 months to 6 months. The supposed quid pro quo being landlord exemptions from paying 50% of their CGT that would otherwise be payable, if they sell to ‘sitting’ [sic] tenants of 3 years’ standing who would also receive the equivalent of 50% of the CGT due as a deposit contribution.

The ‘think tank’ Onward, In its latest report, has proposed this new fiscal attack ‘include’ the two ‘tax relief’ policies, implying this could be extended to include further tax assaults on the sector. The group has previously suggested the complete disallowing of finance costs and even disallowing costs such as that of furnishings in rented houses.  I have previously written about this for an article on Conservativehome titled “The Government’s attack on private landlords is misguided“.

This latest suggestion, which it is rumoured may be announced in the forthcoming Budget, is based on the idea that there are annually 88,000 tenants who would thereby purchase the rented home in which they live. The authors of the report have provided no evidence that this would transpire, other than quoting a survey finding that 9 out of 10 renters would like to own. They then make some dodgy extrapolations.

With the lack of any hard data on this, I am therefore conducting a straw poll and I would be grateful if as many landlords can answer as possible.

When answering, include all properties, even HMOs (however ridiculous this may seem). Please can you answer the 4 points in the comments section below numbering them from 1 to 4 and then give your views on this policy if you have any? We need landlords’ expertise on this as otherwise our voices will not be heard.

  1. What percentage of your current tenants have lived in your property for more than 3 years?

  2. What number of tenant households does this equate to?

  3. What percentage of all of your current tenants (counting a household as one) do you believe would take up this offer to buy the landlord’s property, including meeting mortgage requirements (if a deposit was gifted to them) and wanting to buy the property they rent from you (rather than a different property elsewhere for example)?

  4. What number (of households) does this equate to?

Additionally if you believe your tenant is not able to afford to buy, can you explain why you believe that to be the case?

Please leave your answers below in comments.

Thank you very much for your assistance

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Dr Rosalind Beck

19:05 PM, 10th October 2018, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Gunga Din at 10/10/2018 - 17:52
Thanks for that comment. The Onward authors quoted a survey saying that 9 out of 10 tenants would like to buy. I'm only surprised it wasn't 10 out of 10. I'm sure 10 out of 10 people would like a chateau in the Loire - does that mean that they somehow have a right to that - and one which Government must satisfy?

Whiteskifreak Surrey

19:20 PM, 10th October 2018, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Dr Rosalind Beck at 10/10/2018 - 19:05
Hi Ros,
I, for one, will not really enjoy a 'chateau au Loire' (much prefer a hut in the Dolomites ;o))) ), but otherwise you made an excellent point.
The sense of entitlement to everything nowadays is really overwhelming - everyone thinks one is entitled to all luxuries of life without lifting a finger. Or probably I am an old cow, who thinks that you actually deserve something only if you are prepared to work for it.... How obsolete and very much early 20th Century...

Anthony Endsor

19:41 PM, 10th October 2018, About 5 years ago

1. 75%
2. 3 out of 4
3. I don't believe any of my tenants would take up the offer. One of my tenants is a single parent working part time, another is recently divorced and relies on benefits to top up her income, another is a stay at home Mum, and the others are a working family.
Two of my tenants have told me they would be homeless without me as there's no way they could ever get a mortgage, one of them said 'I don't know what I'd do, probably be slumming it on the streets or something'.
The one tenant who might possibly be able to afford to buy has said they prefer to rent as it means they're not tied to a property long term, so if they want to move on they don't have to go through the hassle of selling and 'all that crap', as well as not having to be bothered with maintenance as that's my job.
4. 0 out of 4.

Chris @ Possession Friend

22:47 PM, 10th October 2018, About 5 years ago

1. 80%
2. 6
3. Nil
4. Nil.

Mick Roberts

6:55 AM, 11th October 2018, About 5 years ago

1. 95%
2. 72
3. 0
4. 0
They aren't able to afford to buy, as not enough earnings to qualify for mortgage.
These people at the top 'outside' the sector where it's actually happening not got a clue.
Have they actually thought of ASKING the Landlord what may work?
I can see the buying house off Landlord part, actually may be good IF the Landlord wants to sell, & he ain't gonna' lose out at all.
Another thing they han't thought of: They talk about scrapping Right to Buy as it's took lot of social AND RENTED houses out the market, away from people wishing to rent. What's this scheme gonna' do? It's gonna' then take houses out the rented sector, so not as much there for future renters. The Govt don't think beyond 5 years, as they just interested in current votes.
The Lettings relief scrapping gonna' cheese more Landlords off, they gonna' be selling & other Landlords not buying any more, as is/was happening with all the other policies they've got wrong:
Benefit Cap.
Universal Credit.
Universal Credit direct payment.
Clause 24.
Selective Licensing.
And so on regulatory changes to help tenant (they think) which Govt charges Landlord who then charges tenant more to pay for these charges who then goes to Govt moaning who then gives Landlord more charges who then goes to Govt moaning who then gives Landlord more charges who then charges tenant more to pay for these charges & so on.
You only have to look at my list of 5 above to see in hindsight Ooh yeah, they are ridiculous aren't they. But the Govt don't admit it & carries on.

Anthony Hawes

9:52 AM, 11th October 2018, About 5 years ago

1. 60%
2. 36
3. 8%
4. 5

The majority of my tenants have at some time or other had financial difficulties, several lost their homes previously as a result of the banking crisis and many are at an age where they will not consider taking on new commitments like a mortgage. A significant number are also on housing benefits and would have very little chance of qualifying for a mortgage anytime soon – regardless of whether or not they receive a gifted deposit. I know this to be the case because I have regularly asked long-term tenants if they would be interested in buying their home from me and the answer is nearly always no, regardless of any incentive I might be able to offer.

More fundamentally though, I don’t see how this could possibly work from a numbers point of view. If you assume the average property price is £150,000 and the smallest deposit most people are likely to need is 10% that means the capital gains tax being saved would need to be £30,000 (assuming the benefit is to be split equally between landlord and tenant). With CGT currently at 28% that would mean the capital gain made on the property in question would have to be over £107,000 – not very likely on something only worth £150,000. Or am I missing something?

Darren Peters

9:59 AM, 11th October 2018, About 5 years ago

1. 10%
3. 0%
Interestingly the two marginal properties that I've sold/selling (S24) had tenants that were interested in buying in theory but had no idea of the value of the property or, more importantly, the running costs. In both cases, I ran through the cost of the 'free' communal heating, hot water and appliances that had been changed for them that year. I wasn't being cocky or patronising, I just pointed out the typical delapedation costs, actual service charge costs and an approximation of their monthly mortgage. I stated I would sell to them for X as a discount of 5-10%, leaving all appliances, beds etc in place as long as they paid rent up to completion of sale.
I get the sense that at both ends of the socio-economic scale, a significant number of tenants don't want the hassle of sorting out the broken washing machine or intermittent heating issue. Some don't want the complexity of managing costs, others don't want the time penalty of being stuck in an 8-1 time window waiting for the new thing.

Ie this:

Dr Rosalind Beck

10:09 AM, 11th October 2018, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Anthony Hawes at 11/10/2018 - 09:52
Very interesting analysis. I will get it double-checked and may use it in the article (s) I'm planning to do on this, if you don't mind?

Alison King

10:22 AM, 11th October 2018, About 5 years ago

1. 80%
2. 5
3. 0
4. 0
I currently have one void. Another family have indicated that they will eventually look for a house with a garden and a third asked me for references for social housing so I know she's looking.
The fourth struggles to pay the rent even though it's well below market rates and the fifth has never expressed the slightest interest. He's just got married and I expect the house will soon be too small for him anyway.
In the past I've asked my tenants why they are not buying as it would be cheaper to do that here in Manchester and they always say they want mobility and not responsibility.

Anthony Hawes

10:25 AM, 11th October 2018, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Dr Rosalind Beck at 11/10/2018 - 10:09
By all means. I hope it is useful

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