HMO – Tribunal Appeals

by Readers Question

12:55 PM, 10th April 2013
About 8 years ago

HMO – Tribunal Appeals

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HMO – Tribunal Appeals

HMO - Tribunal AppealsHas anyone had a successful Tribunal appeal against the seemingly inflexible regulations as regards kitchen layouts or not dealing sympathetically with old houses (1930’s) versus new builds?

I have been told that whereas the present layout would be fine for a single family as regards safety, it is not suitable to be licensed as an HMO, as the cooker is next to the stainless steel sink draining board.

Interested to hear of any Tribunal appeal outcome.

Regards

Derek Bendall


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Comments

Alex Williams

15:53 PM, 10th April 2013
About 8 years ago

Hi Derek

I think what they are saying is not that it is fine for a single family, they are saying that they have no power to enforce a change were it let to a single family.

I would not be comfortable with it and even if you did let your house out to a single family the appliance would probably fail an electrical inspection as it has to be more than 300m away from any source of water. It is no more safe with a single family, just that the council HMO regs cant deal with it in that context.

Alex

Mark Crampton Smith

17:03 PM, 12th April 2013
About 8 years ago

I would be interested to know what authority you are dealing with here....... I am increasingly aware that many local government officials are making demands as a condition of HMO licensing that have to statutory basis in the 2004 Housing Act. The matter you raise is in fact pertaining to the HHSRS which can be enforced on any property whether let to families or to sharers. In reality, as they are inspecting for HMO licensing purposes, they lump it all in. My guess is that a tribunal might find in your favour on technical grounds, but the authority would just send you an enforcement order under HHSRS (having got the statutory basis tightened up).

Joe Bloggs

10:34 AM, 13th April 2013
About 8 years ago

alex - what is the source of your 300mm (i assume its not 300m!)? last time i checked bs 7671 there was no such min. dimension.

Alex Williams

10:55 AM, 13th April 2013
About 8 years ago

300mm.!

my electrician says it will be in the on site guide. moreover it's common sense in my viee

Alex Williams

11:03 AM, 13th April 2013
About 8 years ago

do a Google..it is in the wickes kitchen planning guide for starters.

Joe Bloggs

11:18 AM, 13th April 2013
About 8 years ago

its not at all helpful when things are posted as though they are facts when they are NOT!
please differentiate between good practise and regulations.

Alex Williams

13:40 PM, 13th April 2013
About 8 years ago

Joe,

I am really sorry to have got it so obviously wrong and I am sure that you are right in what you say such is the confidence evident from your post. I stand thoroughly corrected and humiliated and you have my most sincere apologies.

Despite my new found knowledge so thoughtfully provided I will continue to place appliances / sockets and like at apparently unnecessarily safe distances from any hazards that may cause death or injury to my tenants.

Alex

Mary Latham

14:18 PM, 13th April 2013
About 8 years ago

There is a useful guide here http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,19428,en.pdf

It may be that they are talking about the need for a pan resting area beside a cooker rather than electrical safety. There are also concerns where a cooker is placed in a "busy" area - ie if someone is using the sink at the same time that someone is using the cooker there needs to be enough "elbow" room to use the cooker safely. There are also minimum size requirements for the kitchen depending on how many people are sharing a property. I have seen many landlords loose the use of a bedroom because they have developed a property and the number of bedrooms have been increased but not the size of the kitchen or livingroom. It's a bit of a minefield to be honest and even the most experienced landlords are often caught out because they think that planning permission or building control covers them - it doesn't because HMO regulations as quite separate

Follow me on Twitter@landlordtweets

Mary Latham

14:18 PM, 13th April 2013
About 8 years ago

There is a useful guide here http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,19428,en.pdf

It may be that they are talking about the need for a pan resting area beside a cooker rather than electrical safety. There are also concerns where a cooker is placed in a "busy" area - ie if someone is using the sink at the same time that someone is using the cooker there needs to be enough "elbow" room to use the cooker safely. There are also minimum size requirements for the kitchen depending on how many people are sharing a property. I have seen many landlords loose the use of a bedroom because they have developed a property and the number of bedrooms have been increased but not the size of the kitchen or livingroom. It's a bit of a minefield to be honest and even the most experienced landlords are often caught out because they think that planning permission or building control covers them - it doesn't because HMO regulations are quite separate

Follow me on Twitter@landlordtweets

Joe Bloggs

15:28 PM, 13th April 2013
About 8 years ago

mary - thanks. this is quite a general guide and cant see anything as specific as a 300mm gap.

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