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10:40 AM, 5th May 2015, About 9 years ago 24
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I have a few houses in Nottingham HB tenants.
I normally have good working relationship with Environmental Health, but recently, one of my tenants dogs been poo-ing on back garden which is not nice for neighbours I know.
The neighbour knows Sherriff of Nottingham which is having influence of this.
Please see below my letter to Env Health, & if anyone has more experience of me on this?
I know we shouldn’t have loads of rubbish on our gardens from tenants etc.,
But can anyone more knowledgeable than me, tell me if I am going to get a criminal conviction, ASBO etc., for one of my tenants dogs doing a poo on their own garden?
They are quoting Env Protection act 1990 Sec 80.
And statutory nuisance 79(1).
How far are us Landlords held accountable for tenants actions?
Letter to Env Health:
Dear XXXX,
You rang me Friday 1 May 2015 at approx 10am, I wasn’t expecting your call, so couldn’t talk.
There’s not a lot I can do if I’m in a meeting & you’ve just rang me when I’m with someone, so it would be good, if you could ring me back.
Because as you know, it’s quite hard for me to ring you back with your automated system, queuing etc. And then get hold of you direct, unless you ring me from your direct line & I ring you straight back on that from my call log.
And then the next thing I know, I get warning letter, I think one of previous letters may have even mentioned ASBO.
I’ve spoke to Cawston several times, every time I go there, garden is clear. What can I do if this is the case?
I know you said you’ve been & dog mess on garden. But clear when I go?
I will always listen to you & co-operate with you, but I don’t think it helps when I get warning letter out the blue when I asked for you to ring me back to discuss.
I know you know your rules regs etc., but I don’t see what I can if a dog has poo-ed at 10am & I’m not there?
XXXXXX at Cawston has taken massive steps to clear gardens up.
As you know, I’ve done my bit cleaning the bits of rubbish off gardens you’ve asked me to.
As we know, the neighbour next door knows the Sheriff of Nottingham, which I know is having a lot of influence over this, as she has rang me personally.
If this is a hygiene problem with xxxxx personally, then surely she needs help with that, does she not? I’m not trained in Social Services, & will help when can, but I cannot control when a dog poos & when not.
I can appreciate not nice dog poo on garden, but what’s to say dog not poo-ed 10mins before you visit?
Please ring me & see what we can do.
I could give her notice, but she is going to take the problem to her next house, as I think I’ve already been told from Env Health, she had this problem at last house, so why not help her solve the problem going forward?
I await your call.
Mick Roberts
Previous Article
Tenants break up and lock change request
Luke P
16:02 PM, 6th May 2015, About 9 years ago
I'm more and more convinced that all Council's are completely unfit for purpose. The vast majority of their staff are incompetent and have a very stand-off'ish attitude and an instant assumption that 'I'm the Council, therefore you HAVE to do as we tell you!' Those that empathise/actually have some genuine authority usually have their hands tied.
If private companies were run in the same fashion and by the same people as Council's, they'd be bankrupt within a month.
Eventually they'll drive all BTL investors out of the market and then they'll have no easy target to prey upon. Will that improve on things? Not in the slightest. They already turn a blind eye to similar problems in council houses/RSLs!!
10:42 AM, 9th May 2015, About 9 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "brian clement" at "05/05/2015 - 21:22":
How ridiculous. Almost all our properties are let to dog/cat owners and they are great tenants and appreciate the chance to have a nice property. They tend not to whinge about minor things and always get carpets, curtains etc professionally cleaned when they leave.
Neil Robb
19:45 PM, 9th May 2015, About 9 years ago
Hi Mick Roberts,
Why did the sheriff think it was appropriate for her to use her position on behalf of a friend to phone you on this matter.
It would seem there is more to this than just the dog poo. It sounds as if your neighbour reporting this to the police , environmental officer and there friend the sheriff and anyone who will listen does not want your tenant as a neighbour. Surely they will be photos of the offending garden how bad is it.
I would speak to the tenant and ask them to address the matter follow up with a letter of your conversation to the tenant. And if the council bring you to court for an ASBO show all steps you have taken.
I would cut and paste Ian's answer which I think is brilliant and point out how this matter was so great the local sheriff who is the friend personally phoned you on this matter. If they do take action I would fight it all the way and use the local press.
I think there was a call for a law change not long back trying to hold landlords responsible for the actions of there tenants. Which is ridiculous. Does that mean the councils or housing association's will be prosecuted for their unruly tenants.
They are just trying to bully you on this to move your neighbour has she any health problems or mental health problems like depression. If so tell the council to provide the support the tenant needs.
I would like to hear how this all turns out.
Mick Roberts
7:45 AM, 11th May 2015, About 9 years ago
I’m assuming a phone call from the Sheriff (to some) is more empowering than a phone call from Mrs Marples.
Yes, I remember that action for for tenants law change thing a few years ago. Are we the Police as well?
A lot of my tenants have depression, not a new one on me that one.
I spoke to CPSO on his way from tenants house on Friday, he said all tidy, he gonna’ report back to Env Health woman.
And saying that, if they are checking every day, they will at some point see something.
Neil Robb
8:55 AM, 11th May 2015, About 9 years ago
Hi Robert
How many visit has this woman had to put up with. If we as landlords kept turning up at one of our properties, that we own we would be accused of harassment and could be prosecuted.
Has her garden ever been that bad have you tried speaking with the neighbour. I have to think there is more to this than meets the eye.
17:14 PM, 11th May 2015, About 9 years ago
As I always advise, find a sensible and sympathetic elected member on the council and get them involved, ideally as an ongoing ally. If you have some new councillors they will be happy for an opportunity to show the officers who is boss. You probably have some new Tories, who you might expect to be on your side as a "hard-working businessman doing good work in supplying housing to the city's most deprived (not depraved) citizens".
Mick Roberts
8:22 AM, 12th May 2015, About 9 years ago
This woman has probably had 50 visits I'd guess.
Her garden was bad maybe a year ago, but now she's on the radar, every tiny thing is pounced upon.
Whereas maybe a bottle cap on mine & yours garden wouldn't be seen.
Mick Roberts
12:39 PM, 23rd May 2015, About 9 years ago
Further to this, we now have more developments.
The Env Health woman rang me Friday, said had Councillors ringing her up, saying mess, she has to investigate, she going out this morning.
I mentioned CPSO man went last week, he all good, she knew about that.
I mentioned I have took Legal Advice on this (din't tell her it was u lot ha ha) & apparently I can't be held responsible for my tenants dog poo etc.
She did seem to slightly back off, but said something about a Statutory Improvement Notice, if she breaks it, my land etc.
She can arrange for it to be cleared & bill us etc.
Something about an abatement notice & because I have said my tenancy says no pets, tenant is in breach & I'm taking no action.
She did ask to see tenancy-I could always write new on-going one with tenant without pets clause.
And she would be prepared to take it to court as a test case because she says yes I am right, how can I be legally responsible, but under one of the above things (I can't remember which as I was driving), I could be the first in a test case.
Joe Bloggs
19:25 PM, 23rd May 2015, About 9 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Mick Roberts" at "23/05/2015 - 12:39":
if your TA does have an outright prohibition on pets, such a clause would not be enforceable anyway as the OFT deem such clauses to be unfair.
Luke P
22:58 PM, 23rd May 2015, About 9 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Joe Bloggs" at "23/05/2015 - 19:25":
And you could come to an agreement separately. As we know, you not even forced to have a written tenancy. Council are clutching at straws if you ask me.
In my thread on a similar topic -abatement notice re household waste in back garden- (which I will update shortly), the council canceled the notice on the owner (my client) and re-issued on the tenant after I told them they should serve it on the person responsible (if they cannot be found, only then can they serve on owner), but in my case the tenant is paying council tax and the council is paying her HB so there was no way they could argue she could not be 'found'. Whether the person responsible engages or not is a different matter and not something that would cause the owner to be served notice on.
As a tax payer, I'd be pretty hacked off if they try you out for a test case...using public money on a case I can only see them losing. Halfwits playing business men/women with money that's not theirs and with no accountability!
Don't back down.