EICR again – Which one is correct?

by Readers Question

9:56 AM, 15th October 2020
About 2 weeks ago

EICR again – Which one is correct?

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EICR again – Which one is correct?

In the NAPIT booklet EIRC Codebreakers 18th edition version Section 5.12.3 it states cables in walls not protected less than 50mm deep not RCD protected will be C2 failure.

In the Electrical installation condition reporting:

Classification codes for domestic and similar electrical installations Issue 5 it says on Page 14; Code C3 – Improvement recommended

Absence of RCD protection for cables installed at a depth of less than 50 mm from a surface of a wall or partition where the cables do not incorporate an earthed metallic covering, are not enclosed in earthed metalwork or are not mechanically protected against penetration by nails and the like.

Which one is correct?

Puzzled Landlord


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Comments

Mrsmithe

10:33 AM, 15th October 2020
About 2 weeks ago

If it was a new installation been installed today then yes it is C2 as they require an RCD or Protection, If it is an installation that is having an EICR check carried out, that was installed to previous regulations then it is a C3 improvement recommended. We would be rewiring every house in the country if C1 and C2 codes were issued to everything that doesn't comply to the latest edition.

Andrew

10:51 AM, 15th October 2020
About 2 weeks ago

You may have followed the prior thread on P118 and watched this video with a NAPIT electrician Bill Stiles https://youtu.be/DFgK3uwkLwM who Im sure will comment on this for you

Im not sure how a tester would know if a cable is 50mm deep as it does not involve chasing out walls. The tests use a tester which doesnt measure depth.

This regulation must be for new install guidance - which on a recent project our cables were chased more than 50mm deep

Paul Shears

11:21 AM, 15th October 2020
About 2 weeks ago

Reply to the comment left by Mrsmithe at 15/10/2020 - 10:33
Thanks for the very clear and succinct statement of plain common sense that so many electricians try to ignore in order to generate an income stream or genuinely don't think of. Legislation has to be practical to implement. Thanks again.

Seething Landlord

16:24 PM, 15th October 2020
About 2 weeks ago

It's not only a money spinner for electricians but also potentially for local authorities. When you have the nightmare combination of appallingly worded regulations and the LHA as enforcing authority why would anyone expect common sense to prevail?

Paul landlord

17:01 PM, 15th October 2020
About 2 weeks ago

Two things.

Firstly you cannot chase out a standard wall to 50mm depth- that would be in contravention of the building regulations that we have to follow in not weakening the structure.

Secondly can you tone it down some of you. We have all spent years as landlords being demonized because of a few and we know how unfair we feel we have been treated. Im an honest sparks and i find you doing the same demonising to me now as we as landlords complain about!! 'Nice little earner', 'money spinner' etc. How insulting this blanket approach is

Seething Landlord

17:53 PM, 15th October 2020
About 2 weeks ago

Reply to the comment left by Paul landlord at 15/10/2020 - 17:01
It may surprise you to know that I watched an online video the other day on the subject of EICRs and one well-connected presenter (an electrician) stated clearly that local authorities had been reassured that the cost of policing the regulations would be more than covered by the penalties that they would be able to collect i.e. it was sold to them as a cash cow.
Not that different from selective licensing really.
Some, perhaps most LHAs will of course act reasonably and most electricians will act honestly but there are already too many reported examples of electricians overcharging or generating unnecessary work to pretend that the problem does not exist.
The regulations require the landlord to comply with the the wiring regulations at all times so the fact that he has had a satisfactory EICR does not protect him from persecution by a vindictive LHA if they find on inspection that he has not complied in some respect which could include the depth to which cables are buried or anything else where the electrician has exercised his discretion or interpreted the regulations differently from what the LHA think is correct.

Brian Hughes

18:53 PM, 15th October 2020
About 2 weeks ago

Reply to the comment left by Mrsmithe at 15/10/2020 - 10:33Thanks for that very clear reply, it is exactly as I have assumed, so, would it be correct to say that the EICR Codebreakers publication by NAPIT should only apply to new 18th Edition installations as far as I can see it makes no exemption for existing pre 18th installations.

Seething Landlord

19:22 PM, 15th October 2020
About 2 weeks ago

Looking again at the original question, surely the common-sense view is to install RCD protection, particularly if you cannot establish that the wiring is sufficiently physically protected, regardless of what the regulations say. I would never expect a tenant to live in a property without that protection and it has always been one of the things that we check before letting a property for the first time.

AlanR

16:49 PM, 16th October 2020
About A week ago

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 15/10/2020 - 19:22I totally agree! I bought two properties seven years ago and, before any tenants moved in, I had EICRs done on both properties. The work included one new consumer unit, earth cable upgrades and other C2/C3 remedial work. The electrician was pretty busy and the total cost was around £900. A few people I know thought I was mad "spending all that money." This year, in order to comply with the new regs, I had the EICRs done again (with tenants in residence) and it was simple and straight forward with no problems and minimal disruption. When it comes to electrical work never cut corners. You have no control over what your tenants plug into the sockets and if the right protection is not there and there's an incident - guess who is in the sh**te??

Mrsmithe

7:47 AM, 17th October 2020
About A week ago

Reply to the comment left by Paul Shears at 15/10/2020 - 11:21
No problem, I am a landlord and an electrician and agree with Paul landlord. The blanket approach is annoying that we’re all con men. Every industry has dishonest or useless employees working in it from the building Trade to legal services to landlords. It’s all about finding the ones that are genuine but unfortunately we sometimes have to experience the poor ones along the way.

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