Deposit Dispute – ADR – Evidence viewing

by Readers Question

13:38 PM, 22nd October 2013
About 7 years ago

Deposit Dispute – ADR – Evidence viewing

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Deposit Dispute – ADR – Evidence viewing

I am currently going through ADR with DPS, and am just wondering is it at all possible that the lead tenant can request all the documentation that the landlord has submitted as evidence?

The process is now with the independent adjudicator, so a decision is imminent, however, I was just wondering if either party is allowed to request the full evidence documents to be sent to them for viewing.

ThanksDeposit Dispute - ADR - Evidence viewing

Daniel



Comments

Vanessa Warwick

15:28 PM, 22nd October 2013
About 7 years ago

Hi Daniel,

My understanding is that the ADR process is fairly informal.

If you visit TDS's YouTube channel, they have a number of videos explaining how it all works.

http://youtube.com/tenancydeposits

However, the more documentary evidence such as inventory, photos, receipts, email correspondence etc. that you can supply, the better!

Industry Observer

15:45 PM, 22nd October 2013
About 7 years ago

Vanessa that was not Daniel's point was it?

He is asking whether the lead tenant is entitled to see all of a Landlord's evidence as submitted for a dispute.

My understanding is that all evidence submitted that would be relevant for the other party to comment on in their counter evidence they obviously need to see otherwise how can they comment?

In an ARLA dispute for example the complainant's form as submitted to ARLA is passed to the agent so they can comment on all the points raised. Not identical system or processes I grant you, but similar enough for the same principles to apply.

My advice to a Landlord client would be "be prepared for the tenant to be shown everything you have submitted" as the Schemes are daft enough to do that given how they bend over to support the tenant (whose money it is, after all)

Rob

15:48 PM, 22nd October 2013
About 7 years ago

I beleive they can ask for a copy if your evidence. I had a tenant raise a dispute with the tds against me and I opted out of it and issued a court claim against the tenant instead. The courts them made me provide the tenant with a copy of all my evidence and vice verser.

Vanessa Warwick

15:53 PM, 22nd October 2013
About 7 years ago

Sorry I should have been more clear.

It's not like a court case. It is more informal, and for that reason, I do not believe that each party will be shown the other's evidence to comment upon.

The outcome is reached through the evidence supplied to the adjudicator, and he can only reach a decision based on the evidence he is provided with. I do not believe that they go to and fro getting feedback on what each party says about each other. It's not that kind of scenario.

I pointed the OP to the "Think like an adjudicator" video as that gives insights into how the adjudication works (at TDS anway) but maybe DPS are different?

Martin S

16:01 PM, 22nd October 2013
About 7 years ago

Firstly, as a point of law, before any Court case is heard, both sides have to be in full possession of any evidence/facts that is to be used in any Court heaing, and so logically, why should there be a problem with a tenant having any evidence?

The wider problem in my experience, is the service offered by DPS, and their ilk. Don't as a Landlord expect there to be a fair and impartial hearing, as their default position is always in the tenant's favour. Within the last year I had a tenant who upon vacating the property, was baulking at paying for any of the damage associated with the damp problem he created.

Of course he initiated a dispute case with the DPS, safe in the knowledge, so he thought, that they were unlikely to find in my favour. Remedy? If you are sure that you are correct, then take matters to Court, and by-pass the DPS. There you will receive a fair hearing, albeit after a long drawn out process. The Judge found in my favour, and fully understood why I have had chosen not to use the DPS resolution service. The ex tenant of course had to reimburse me for my costs, and for the Court costs. How sweet Justice!

Hazel Taylor

17:17 PM, 22nd October 2013
About 7 years ago

Why not join the Residential Landlords Association, as the name suggests an organization for landlords. They operate a deposit protection scheme, and we have a number of our deposits with this scheme.

Winsome P

17:37 PM, 22nd October 2013
About 7 years ago

I am just finishing a evidence submitting process via my deposits process and here is practical advice.
1. The tenant see your evidence and you see their.
2. When uploading dont try to upload large files as it takes too long and the IT department at the front might be able to see your picture files but the adjudicator at the back cannot.
3. I was recommended to use googlemail to submit evidence because you can upload files into googledrive and then send those files via email. However I think the IT department downloading could not quite believe the time it took to download the file and cut it short. This may of been because there were 127 photos of 6MB plus about 6 videos one of which on its own was 1.3GB.
4. The total storage space used on googledrive as a result of this upoloading was 7GB and I resorted to starting the uploading at 8pm and then giving it a nudge at about 10am the next morning. However I think the downloading department cant wait and also the googledrive needs the exact email addresses of those that need to read the emails and of course mydeposits don't do that.
5. It is simpler to download onto a memory stick or as I asked and was accepted to do onto a 16GB micro SD card. I could then post the sd card with its adapter to my deposits.
6. The above solution would of saved me over 20 hours of uploading and 5 visits to Apple Genius stores to resolve my IT issues with Mac, two iPhones and 5 SD cards having used 3 cameras during the tenancy and aftermath.
7. To give them credit mydeposits have allowed extra time however I am completely at a loss as to why they dont provide such simple advice as above. In this age of tech cameras and photos are ever higher in detail and memory required and a 5min video is 1.3GB.
8. However I dont count my chickens until they have hatched as I have only today sent the SD card with its 8GB and I have yet to hear the result.
9. For those who have read my postings many moons ago this is the same group that had 20 black bin bags outside and inside the house, had regular parties, broke two mattresses having used them outside, burnt the hob, didnt clean up, whose parent threatened me with being hit during the inventory and who converted my raised pond with waterfall into and outdoor hot pool plus chopped the TV aerial probably so they could watch tv whilst in the pool. Yes amazed me! However at the end despite using all 3 fire extinguishers, breaking both vacuum cleaners including a Henry vacuum cleaner they professed that butter wouldn't melt in their mouth and that despite the pictures that I found of a slug infested wet divan bed left outside in the rain that they had wrapped it up in the shed etc. Various lies which I presume having been expertly advised by parents who had never visited but knew better they put on in the hope that I could not find my picture and video files.

However I had paid for a professional cleaning firm within 24 hours of the start and Im at a loss as to how to make the horse drink the water or the turkeys to realise Xmas comes each year as does Landlords uncovering all the breakages. Plus 25 year old ornamental bushes cut to the ground.

Oh by the way in their world "wear and tear" included cutting 8 inch slits into the top of new sofa and underneath another sofa -

Their evidence seemed to exclude the professional inventory clerks picture or video when she was there on check in day surprise surprise!

Hope you had a laugh and remember there are always worse tenants than yours somewhere.

Sadly one of the boys who left after 2 months but paid their share of the rent for the term feels rightly hard done by the actions of the other so I hope to make a gift to him anyway as I feel that is right.

By the way mydeposits did scan and cut the photos I took of my bank statements to hide the bank details which I thought was proper and good.

I wait and see for the final result.

Industry Observer

21:52 PM, 23rd October 2013
About 7 years ago

@ Winsome P

Must be quite a case as 127 photos and 6 videos is so far over the top I can't even see that far!!

@ Martin S

I take your point but it is NOT a Court and as such whilst general principles such as following natural justice(!!) and errors at law will matter, there will be detailed differences.

However I think Vanessa is closest to the answer in this case.

It is also, needless to say, covered in each Scheme Rules what the Adjudicator can and cannot do. Never waste time or breath telling them what to do because of course they know best.

Winsome P

19:31 PM, 24th October 2013
About 7 years ago

Well you have to remember that in the garden there were 4 different items and areas, inside there were about 8 different items broken and damaged, then there are photos before, during, on check out day and after repaired.
Plus I also had to photograph my bank statements for the year as evidence that I paid it plus the many receipts and invoices.
Then the check out a few brief high resolution videos with audio.

All adds up and my photos were high resolution 16mp and 6MB per photo.

Should be covered and I would disappointed if I didn't get 95% of their deposit deducted.


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