Being an expert after an expert is employed?

Being an expert after an expert is employed?

9:14 AM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago 13

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You have an EICR done by a NAPIT registered professional – it raises a few C’3. The report actually states ‘ There are no items adversely affecting electrical safety, and the C’s listed are categorised and listed as ‘Improvement recommended’.

What does this actually mean?

Yes, I have legally ticked the box for the check to be done and got a copy of this myself, and a copy will also be sent onto the tenant for which they will acknowledge receipt.

I reiterate there is NO immediate or urgent action stated anywhere in the report and the professional has given an assessment that another check is to be done in 5 years.

The last page of the report states C3 coding…
Where an observation has been given a Classification code C3, the inspection and/or testing has revealed
a non-compliance with the current safety standard which, whilst not presenting immediate or potential
danger, would result in a significant safety improvement if remedied. Careful consideration should be
given to the safety benefits of improving these aspects of the installation. The NICEIC Approved Contractor
issuing this report will be able to provide further advice.

Do I now have to be an expert myself in interpreting the level of risk that a C3 poses against any work to correct this ‘recommendation’?

Surely if the issue were a real ‘this needs doing now’ which is itself if based on the professional electricians own analysis it would be a C1 or 2?

DSR



Comments

by Gunga Din

11:25 AM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

I take the view that if the issues were a danger, they would be C2 or C1. There’s a tremendous amount of flannel written into the C3 definition, on the cover one’s bottom principle. I wonder whether the legal bottom line is LL responsible if anything happened consequent to a C3, because the LL has been “warned”, or assessor responsible because he/she should have made it a C2.

by Luke P

11:47 AM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Gunga Din at 07/02/2022 - 11:25
If that did happen, industry body would have the sparky's back, whereas we'd be left high n dry!

The other question is, how long before standards are 'raised' (only in the private sector) and all those C3s become mandatory too...?

by Jireh Homes

12:33 PM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

Classification as a C3 confirms no action required to meet electrical safety requirements. However as a LL you may wish to address, e.g. where the existing consumer unit is the old style wired fuses you may be wise to upgrade to a modern trip board.

by Paul landlord

13:04 PM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Gunga Din at 07/02/2022 - 11:25
Just to qualify my position I am a portfolio landlord of 30 years and a registered sparks and Inspector of 14 years.

If you have a C3 then yes you are quite right- the decision whether to have the improvements done is entirely your choice based upon your own knowledge or if you feel you want further advice of course you can take advice from any other 'advice source' you choose. Ultimately the decision is yours. Just in the same way if you have an advisory on your car MOT the choice is yours.

An Inspector can only code to the guidelines and his experience.

Some C3s I wouldn't even consider doing (I didn't say that) and indeed some C3s could not be rectified without rewiring circuits- would you do this ? I wouldn't (again I didn't say that) but ultimately you have a Pass and the choice is yours and nobody elses.

The classes of C1, C2, FI and C3 are within a defined (albit a bit grey definition rather than pure black and white) and it is not the Inspector speaking with his voice but the voice of BS7671 which you're installation is being compared against. No inspector could put in writing 'BS7671 recommends it but I wouldnt bother'.

And if you ask your Inspector he may well just repeat the recommendation just to gain remedial works even though in reality he doesn't believe it.

As I say the choice is yours just like the advisories on an MOT cert

by Luke P

13:07 PM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Paul landlord at 07/02/2022 - 13:04
I don't think the element of choice was in doubt with the OP, rather whether IF things went belly-up, could the presence of C3s be used against you...?

by Paul landlord

13:14 PM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Luke P at 07/02/2022 - 11:47
To answer your final question the Ammendment 2 to the 18th edition of BS7671 is planned for next month already having been planned before ammendment 1 came out in 2020 and ammendment 1 was planned before the 18th edition was even released in 2018.

You get the picture? It's never ending and drives us sparks mad. Costs us £100s to buy the new books and spend multi £100s on update courses sat in a private classroom.

To your favour tho you will find 99% of higher standards released aren't mandatoty to implement retrospectively so your pocket will be ok!

Something on an installation to an older standard is normally C3d against the new standard. This is where most C3s come from in the first place.

by Christopher Holden

13:23 PM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Luke P at 07/02/2022 - 11:47
You mention the very thing that I get very upset regards.
I feel it is border line illegal or should be illegal.

The double standards that we are held to a higher standard, yet la housing and housing (ass)ociation rent out sub standard proerties boarding on illegal / squalor we would never dream to rent out.

I have worked for an la, and dealtwith more than my fair share of housing ass's and they deal sub standard properties at best.

Rant over 😉

by No hate plz

16:34 PM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

It depends. I take C3 as, it's not up to current standard but not likely to cause a problem. I think you have to take each one on its own and decide. I have Properties where the C3 is about the consumer unit, as it's plastic, I don't currently have any plans to change them.

by DSR

17:29 PM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Paul landlord at 07/02/2022 - 13:14
I think that's where my Cs have come from then. They are not from non compliance, just ' non compliant reflective' (maybe a better term??) against the same current regulations where more modern installations are judged. In other words not dangerous/need immediate attention or they would have been a C1/2/F1.

relieved.

by Phil Heath

17:54 PM, 7th February 2022, About 4 months ago

Reply to the comment left by No hate plz at 07/02/2022 - 16:34
I had a CU marked as a C2 , it is plastic housed within the outside wall of the property. The company wanted to change it along with more remedial work for a cost of £1200.00. I sent their report to Nappit who replied 'it is a C3 '. I got an independent trader round for a 2nd opinion and he said the same as Nappit. The first company were 'trying it on' and I flatly refused to pay their fee for the initial check telling them it wasn't fit for purpose. The independent trader got the job to do a retest and the remedial work for a shade over £700 all in. Of course...I'll be contacting him regarding any future work that is necessary. Companies have made a small fortune out of landlords regarding EICR's but I had done some research re CU 's as it is a favourite to be marked wrongly and in favour of the EICR tester.

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