Green Deal problem – Advice Requested

by Readers Question

16:24 PM, 5th February 2013
About 8 years ago

Green Deal problem – Advice Requested

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Green Deal problem – Advice Requested
Green Deal problem - Advice Requested

Advice Requested

David Brinsden has a Green Deal problem and has requested advice from Property118 readers as follows:

“I have two Victorian flat conversions in Bedford, both let on LHA. Both properties have been visited by a council surveyor with a list of improvements needed. This came as a bit of a surprise!

One was easy as the property was due a new boiler & was soon installed.

The second property has got solid brick walls. I was told that I had to insulate the walls to meet a current standard. This was not cost effective as I estimated the cost to over 3000 & 3 weeks disruption.

The surveyor came clean about what had prompted the visit and said it was a government initiative as part of the Green Deal.

The most worrying thing that he has told me though is that it will be illegal to rent a property with an E rating EPC by 2016 & illegal to sell one after then.

Does anyone else know about this as it has prompted to think about putting my older property stock on the market now.

I look forward to reading your responses

David Brinsden”

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Mary Latham

1:32 AM, 8th February 2013
About 8 years ago

There will be ECO subsidies to cover these hard to heat properties regardless of the tenants circumstances. Solid wall insulation does not meet the Golden Rule and therefore will not come under Green Deal for most properties
Follow me on Twitter@landlordtweets

Mark Alexander

14:30 PM, 8th February 2013
About 8 years ago

Hi David

I have lots of questions about the Green Deal, would you be interested in an online open Q&A session?

Mary Latham

14:30 PM, 8th February 2013
About 8 years ago

David not for landlords from 2016 tenants can request the landlord to improve the property to a minimum E in line with the Assessors recommendations and if the landlord can get a Green Deal he cannot legally refuse the request.
Follow me on Twitter@landlordtweets


2:05 AM, 9th February 2013
About 8 years ago

Yes Mark


3:09 AM, 9th February 2013
About 8 years ago

Mark Alexander

4:24 AM, 9th February 2013
About 8 years ago

That’s great Thomas, let’s start by me asking you what qualifies you to answer questions about the Green deal please.

12:39 PM, 11th February 2013
About 8 years ago

Hi David

It will not be possible for a Green Deal Assessment to be refused by a landlord after 2016 if a tenant requests it. It will not be possible to rent a property after 2018 unless the property meets a minimum EPC rating standard.This has not yet been set in stone, but could be E or even D (to match the rating required for Feed-in Tariffs for PV systems. Where properties have not been upgraded, as we reach 2018 they could become unsaleable.

If you need any more information about Green Deal I would be happy to provide some to you (or any others who are interested as this is my area of expertise. Follow me on Twitter @kJanen or email direct

10:31 AM, 7th March 2013
About 8 years ago

The man from the council is basically correct, I am not sure that you cannot sell the property however you would not be able to re-let.

Unless the properties are listed there is no reason the tenants should be effected by the insulation works as you can insulate externally which in any case is far superior. With materials now available you can transform a sad looking building into a very modern looking building very warm and waterproof. What`s more this could be funded by an ECO, part of the Green Deal.


12:45 PM, 7th March 2013
About 8 years ago

Hi David,

The facts are from 2016 your client can try to get you to implement either the Green deal iniative or ECO funding through the courts if your property has an EPC band below E .From 2018 if yor property is either band F G or h then you can be fined up to £5000 and you cannot let or sell yoir property .
These facts can be found in the DECC website and are part of the Energy Act 2011.



Industry Observer

16:50 PM, 9th March 2013
About 8 years ago

Excuse length of this post but have been researching, gathering comment from expert sources, and away on holiday!! Below are extracts from various responses to the original article and *** comments on them

I believe this insistence on raising the property to EPC level E will only apply to landlords: homeowners as usual won't be required to do anything unless they sell.
***It is under discussion to bring in a limit on selling homes below a certain level too, but that is further away***

However once the general public realises that they have to raise their properties to level E, otherwise they will never be allowed to sell their homes there is going to be an enormous political response.
***This is only a proposal***

Level E is actually quite hard to reach with an old pre-1920s property with solid walls, .........mad rush towards converting all houses into airless sealed "green" boxes is going to lead to enormous destruction of our housing heritage.
***I guess it is that or risk destroying the plant!**

Much can happen between now and 2018 and as I understand, this 'suggested' piece of legislation has not been finalised.
***Not true. The act requires regulations to be brought into force by April 2018, though the level of a minimum standard is not yet set.***

Beware - the GDA providers may not necessarily be the best cost effective companies to deal with. The loan of the GD is close to 7%. It may be more effective to just get a loan from elsewhere and get a company to fit at a lower cost
***Agree entirely***.

Who would go to a utility firm to get a new heating system!!! - but many do and find out later that they have paid 50% extra. Also sales of GD loans will written on the EPC and many buyers (if you decide to sell before 16yrs of having loan) will require the loan paid off which attracts a penalty or a reduction in the sale price.

Also these golden rules are blown out of the water when the occupancy rate changes - they are only valid for 12 months.

***Incorrect. The golden rule is the golden rule at the point of the green deal being agreed. Actually, over time the saving will increase as less power is consumed so the householder will make more saving using less power but the amount on green deal remains static. Also understand that the golden rule is a little tarnished in that it is not a guarantee it won’t happen, only a guarantee they won’t go ahead if it appears to fail the golden rule test. There are too many factors out of control. For example, what if the tenant felt they were not wasting so much heat in a draughty house so chose to run it at a warmer temperature increasing consumption in a way the calculation does not consider***

We have a number of solid wall properties of varying ages most of which have tenants who are in receipt of LHA and also other benefits. I have been given to understand that where tenants are on qualifying benefits, under the ECO (Energy Company Obligation) scheme, so long as the tenants apply to the company and meet the qualifying standards, neither the Landlord or the tenant pays anything at all, not even by way of a charge on the electricity bill.

***ECO is split into three areas, Standard Eco deals with hard to treat properties. Then they is benefit Eco which is the one mentioned here and if the occupier is in receipt of these then all the basic work can be done for free. There is also location Eco which is being used to target specific geographical areas. All of these are limited pots of money.***

These last two by Mary Latham

Please visit the DECC website and search for Green Deal and ECO funding I'm sure that you will find this information most useful as it will show you not only how to improve your properties with no upfront costs to yourself but there is also a cash back scheme that you will be eligible for every measure you take out to improve reduce the carbon emissions from your properties .
***Correct but max £1000 per property and limited funds first come first served.***

There will be ECO subsidies to cover these hard to heat properties regardless of the tenants circumstances. Solid wall insulation does not meet the Golden Rule and therefore will not come under Green Deal for most properties

***But most properties with solid walls will be hocked to the max under green deal and then get a top up from ECO. For the list of what is allowed under green deal see the regs***

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