Failed EPC Due to assumed no insulation?

by Readers Question

15:23 PM, 3rd February 2020
About 9 months ago

Failed EPC Due to assumed no insulation?

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Failed EPC Due to assumed no insulation?

I am at a loss where to go to rectify my EPC rating. The engineer that came out to assess has rated my flat (converted Mill in 2007) a G3. He has given zero stars for Insulation walls & Ceiling. The stone walls are 2 foot thick which I believe are dry lined but my roof is pitched with no loft hatch.

What he has said is: “As there is no evidence on site of any insulation, we cannot say there is any even if someone says there is. There are 2 ways we are able to override the insulation –

The landlord can supply a building sign of document from when the properties were converted. This MUST include the building regulations date it was converted to(this isn’t always present on the documentation so if the LL doesn’t have it, it’s not that unusual).


A letter from the company who carried out the renovation. Within this letter it MUST have all of the following information
•Letterheaded paper
•Address of the property in question
•Insulation type and thickness as well as where the insulation is, ie exterior walls, roof etc
•Signed by a Director of the company who carried out the renovation.

That latter is impossible as the firm went bankrupt a couple of month after completion. I have no documents that refer to material used.

Can anyone guide me in the right direction?

Many thanks


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14:15 PM, 4th February 2020
About 9 months ago

Hi Rachel I am a domestic energy assessor and would happily take a look into this to advise what can be done. I am MEES (minimum energy efficiency standards) trained and specialise in energy grants, so where possible we could use them to improve the rating
If you would like me to do this do get in touch.
Kind regards


22:32 PM, 4th February 2020
About 9 months ago

This is a common issue with households rented or owned. Sounds like your house maybe under insulated and perhaps u der heated too. We provide exemptions but unless you are a Landlord this is not really helpful. We also provide funding for home owners And Landlords all over the UK to minimise or totally eradicate the cost of improving your property. Feel free to get in touch via here or our website. We can help fix this quickly and even if you just want some free advice, your very welcome. With thanks Charles (energyx2)

steve p

23:50 PM, 4th February 2020
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by brian gill at 04/02/2020 - 10:27
Just because the walls are plaster does not mean the back box of electrical accessories will be plastic. Its common practice when building to put in extra wooden bracing and screw a metal back box to the wooden bracing. The advantage of a metal back box is if someone drills from the other side of the wall they are less likely to go straight through the back box and damage the cables/come into contact with live conductors.

The best advice is a small hole and inspection camera or larger hole that can be easily patched (Note stay away from safe zones for electrical cables). And add a loft hatch, it will have an advantage of giving you access in case of required maintenance.

David Price

19:11 PM, 5th February 2020
About 9 months ago

I have just had the whole of my building (100 flats) externally insulated with 110 mm rockwool. Some of my flats now have a lower EPC.


21:21 PM, 5th February 2020
About 9 months ago

Your EPC inspector is an idiot..Get another one done and make sure you're present, or have a builder present to advise plus have a ring around some of the EPC companies and talk through your problem you will eventually find a more experienced inspector who has a better understanding and who will take a view..Many of the younger inspectors I've come across have no build or construction knowledge or natural background in building and should be treated as ill informed. Note any 2007 conversion would have included comprehensive energy calcs and thermal insulation thus would not have passed BR without it, have a look at the planning portal and see what BR info is there...Print off your previous expired EPC and ask the current one to comment before you use some choice words..

David Price

2:44 AM, 6th February 2020
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by JohnCaversham at 05/02/2020 - 21:21
The EPC assessor is okay, the problem is the government which has moved the goal posts and changed the rules. The problem is an unheated but well insulated corridor, the solution is to put a heater in the corridor but of course never to switch it on.

Jireh Homes

2:19 AM, 8th February 2020
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by John Dace at 04/02/2020 - 09:34
Hi John - be glad you are not a residential home-owner in Scotland, where the proposal is that ALL owner-occupied homes have Band C as minimum EPC rating at point of sale or major refurbishment effective 2025!!!

Jireh Homes

2:30 AM, 8th February 2020
About 9 months ago

A potential alternative to some of the evidence stated above is dated photographic evidence of conversion in 2007, using the logic that the insulation requirements of Building Regulations would have been applied. Try looking at Google Earth which may show earlier historical images.

David Price

5:38 AM, 8th February 2020
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Jireh Homes at 08/02/2020 - 02:30
I tried this with the flat roof insulation and the photgraphs, nearly 100 taken at the time the roof was insulated (Late 90's), were rejected as all photographic evidence had to be less than 3 months old. The building was assumed to be as built in the 60's and all the top floor flats were given poor EPC's.

This is an ongoing battle.


17:45 PM, 8th February 2020
About 9 months ago

The question is how to you need to interact with your EPC assessor? My route is to build a business relationship with him and ask him to undertake a preliminary assessment. You can find out what routes you need to take to hit that magic E.

You can also work out the cost of improvements v benefits obtained. I recently hit an E by installing a £89 heater with a thermostat, timer and fan from Argos. I could have used expensive night storage heaters at £800 each but my conversation with the assessor saved me a fortune.

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