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9:11 AM, 24th December 2015, About 8 years ago 114
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Ever since the Summer Budget we have been encouraging Property118 members to actively lobby their local elected officials to explain the real life consequences of Clause 24 of The 2015 Finance Bill (Restrictions on Finance Cost Relief For Individual Landlords).
The vast majority of responses have been gratitude for highlighting the consequences of clause 24 and the increased homelessness issues it is likely to create. Slowly but surely we are amassing a growing level of public sector support, and concern in terms of how the consequences of a shrinking or stagnating private rented sector will affect local economies and homelessness as of 2017 when the new legislation begins to get phased in.
Below is the shocking response received from Councillor Chris Devine (Conservative – Wiltshire) to a very polite, very well worded report sent to him by one of our Property118 campaign team members.
Chris Devine Cllr.
“So Gareth, how many properties do you own? Your email is deeply flawed, do you seriously believe that the `buy to let` brigade give a fig for those they are exploiting with high rents and short tenancies.
Stop thinking about your own pocket and think about society, you lot are nothing, but, parasites and the sooner you are taxed out of existence the better.
Just because I am a Conservative does not mean that I do not have a social conscience, well done to George Osbourne. As for you. Try doing some public service and stop snivelling.
Chris Devine, Cllr”
Needless to say, we were shocked!
We asked Cllr James Fraser (Conservative – Stevenage), who has been incredibly supportive of our campaigning, what could be done.
Cllr Fraser immediately wrote the following email to Cllr Chris Devine …
“Dear Cllr Devine,
I refer to your recent email to Gareth Wilson, a friend of mine who, like me, is somewhat surprised by the level of rudeness and ignorance shown in your response (not to mention the lack of grammatical skill nor the simple ability to spell Osborne).
Gareth had correctly tried to bring to your attention the impossible position small investors and businesses were being put in by some government policy that, directly or indirectly, several million people will be affected by over the next four years.
Perhaps not surprisingly, you have proven how little an understanding you have of the situation. Has it not occurred to you that many of your constituents, even people who voted for you, are investors in homes? Do you feel that the large percentage of Conservative MPs who rent property are ‘parasites’? Or is Wiltshire unique among English counties in that they have an unending supply of council stock to offer to the tenants you would so willingly displace from their privately-rented homes?
Incredibly, you feel that insulting people who contribute vast sums of money and endless hours of time to alleviating the pressure on council stock is you having a conscience and doing something useful for society. What a strange way to view yourself.
You don’t offer any explanation for why Gareth’s email is ‘deeply flawed’, probably because it isn’t. The information contained within it is referenceable from the highest and best researched of sources and luckily has been received with a lot more intelligence by other Conservative councillors nationwide.
Your deeply offensive descriptions and frankly ill-informed opinions are an embarrassment to those of us who are both Conservatives and who work in housing as a profession. They fall well short of standards expected of public officials. To this end I have reported your email to your group leader, the council Chief Exec and your local press, who ought to know how their elected representatives address members of the public expressing their genuine concerns.
Sincerely
Cllr James Fraser
Deputy Leader of the Conservatives
Stevenage Borough Council”
Cllr Fraser then followed this up by making the following formal complaint to Cllr Devine’s boss ….
“Dear Cllr Britton,
I feel I must bring to your attention the reply below received from Cllr Devine after an email from one Gareth Wilson outlining some consequences of the government’s Clause 24.
Gareth Wilson had written a well-researched and intelligent piece to bring to your attention a ruinous policy that will affect millions of people nationwide and no doubt a good many of your constituents.
This reply falls well short of the standards required of a public official. To call the writer – a friend of mine – a ‘parasite’ who Devine wants ‘taxed out of existence’ and who should ‘stop snivelling’ is deeply offensive and worthy of reporting to your local press.
Devine clearly has no knowledge of the sector, nor its contribution to relieving pressure on council housing stock, nor the kind of care and commitment it takes to be a private landlord, of which I too am such a worthless parasite who should clearly do more for society.
Sincerely
Cllr James Fraser
Deputy Leader, Conservatives
Stevenage Borough Council”
Councillor Chris Devine (Conservative – Wiltshire) Named and Shamed https://t.co/jBAQQ7xEWe @wiltshiretimes pic.twitter.com/OXtQ4ZsFOt
— Mark Alexander (@iAmALandlord) December 24, 2015
This article shows the level of ignorance #Landlords are up against https://t.co/jBAQQ7xEWe Cllr named & shamed
— Mark Alexander (@iAmALandlord) December 24, 2015
#Landlord basher gets his comeuppance https://t.co/jBAQQ7xEWe
— Mark Alexander (@iAmALandlord) December 24, 2015
Chris Byways
21:23 PM, 25th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Cllr Baroness Scott of Bybrook O.B.E
Conservatives
Leader,
Wiltshire County Council
Jane.scott@wiltshire.gov.uk
Dear Baroness Scott,
I am appalled and astounded by the letter written by CLLR CHRIS DEVINE.
This is rude arrogant and misplaced, and from his later feeble "justification" he seems totally unrepentant.
http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/14167275.Landlords_are__parasites___says_Tory_councillor/
It appears to be totally in contradiction to your Council's ethics described on your own web site, see some quotes below, where you recognise the importance of the private rental sector. Will you please advise what action is to be taken against this person.
"There is a high demand for affordable homes in Wiltshire, and across the UK in general. There were over 20,500 households registered for re-housing within Wiltshire alone with the numbers growing daily. Demand will always outweigh supply so the Council needed to ensure that those with the greatest need were prioritised for re-housing.
Wiltshire Council recognises the importance of the private rented sector in providing housing for its residents.
In Wiltshire there are in excess of 1700 properties that have been empty for more than 6 months. With demand for housing continuing to increase Wiltshire Council recognises the importance of making best use of existing homes. Returning empty homes to use has the following advantages;
maintain the quality of the area and neighbouring property values,
reduce the pressure to build on Greenfield sites to accommodate the extra homes that are needed to meet housing need,
increase the housing options of those looking for a home in Wiltshire through additional availability,
reduce the number of crime hotspots in the area,
reduce anti-social behaviour."
CC
housing.strategy@wiltshire.gov.uk
investigations@wiltshire.gov.uk
pressteam@wiltshire.gov.uk
committee@wiltshire.gov.uk
Regards,
Chris Byways,
East Tythington
Wilts
Appalled Landlord
22:00 PM, 25th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Ros ." at "25/12/2015 - 20:47":
Hi Ros
A reply has been added to the post that you quoted:
"Hi Christopher
I’m afraid the picture is worse than you stated. If you increase the rent by £2,803 you will have to pay 40% tax on that increase as well. To get an extra £2,803 net, you would need to increase the rent by £4,672. That is 52% of the current rent.
This measure is being phased in over four years beginning in April 2017, so you have just over four years to increase the rent to £1,140 a month. You would still be making zero profit, so the effective rate of tax would be infinite.
You would be no better off than you are today, but the government would be, because your income tax would have increased by £2,803. On 29 April David Cameron had promised the electorate that his party, if elected, would not increase income tax in this parliament, full stop. You can see him make the promise on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5kGUAtvtv8 about 4 and a half minutes in.
On 8 July, nine weeks after the general election, George Osborne announced the plan to increase your income tax.
On 20 July Mr Osborne told the Treasury select committee that the Bank was supposed to ‘”identify bubbles and risks in the financial system”, and had recently named the buy-to-let sector as one of them. But he said he did not want to stop small-time landlords from investing in property, saying: “There are many people who have saved hard throughout their lives to buy a little property and rent it out. Those are people we absolutely want to support and help”. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3170154/Bank-crack-risky-buy-let-mortgages-warns-Osborne-Ministers-hand-powers-limit-lending-landlords.html
It is not clear whether this was a private joke, or whether he just does not understand clause 24."
Chris Byways
23:09 PM, 25th December 2015, About 8 years ago
It may well be worse still, if he is in receipt of ANY means tested benefit, or payment settlement etc that is based on "income". This has created, for the first time, a fictitious income based on a gross figure before the actual costs of running the business.
When the investment to provide decent homes for those who have or want to rent becomes a 'statutory' loss, the business model WILL change. This will involve varied actions,
- going up-market to middle income renters rather than the 'value' end
(those needing assistance with housing)
- changing to serviced lets
- changing to business use - depending on type and location
- redevelopment to HMOs or flats or rebuild etc
Etc Etc. The Smaller landlord can't be expected to subsidise council's who have been forced to sell at up to 70% discount, there are many other places for their life savings that do give a return.
It must be apparent that his long term tenant's security has been put at serious risk by Devine and his ilk.
It must be admitted the housing market is broken, but Devine's stupid comments shows his pitiful ignorance of his own council's plight and policy!
SACK HIM.
Appalled Landlord
23:17 PM, 25th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Appalled Landlord" at "25/12/2015 - 22:00":
And a post-script has been added:
"If you did increase the rent by £4,672, the tax on that amount would be £1,869, so the total income tax on your zero profit would also be £4,672! This is a stark example of how Osborne will conjure extra tax out of – tenants."
Mark Hulbert
6:04 AM, 26th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Recardo Knights" at "24/12/2015 - 11:56":
Well done Recardo. Please follow this up assiduously and if the response is clearly inadequate it can be widely publicised on Property118 and elsewhere.
Monty Bodkin
9:32 AM, 26th December 2015, About 8 years ago
2008;
http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/2183044.council_forced_to_concede_over_special_meeting/
Meanwhile opponents of the proposal to build 2,500 homes on the edge of Winterslow are planning a rally in the Market Square on Saturday, April 19.
Organised by councillor Chris Devine, it will start at 11am.
"The mood of the residents of Winterslow is pretty angry," he said.
"We are expecting a large turnout."
2015;
http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/salisbury/salisburynews/14167275.display/
Describing himself as a "social Conservative", Cllr Devine said: "People like that are absolutely destroying the housing stock. It's outrageous."
Dr Rosalind Beck
9:47 AM, 26th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Monty Bodkin" at "26/12/2015 - 09:32":
So he not only doesn't provide housing (as we do), but he opposes the provision of new housing. 'Nimbys against landlords and house builders!' what good does this man actually do? He thinks he is providing 'public service.' What does that mean? Some people think that opposing the building of houses is doing something positive; similarly, Shelter thinks that opposing landlords is helping tenants, when they should actually be providing housing - that would help tenants..
Barry Fitzpatrick
12:51 PM, 30th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Just emailled the following to the leader of Wiltshire Council copied my local MP:
Dear Baroness Scott,
I am outraged and deeply insulted by the recent publication in the Salisbury Journal of comments made by Cllr Chris Devine about private Landlords which I am one, and from his later feeble “justification” he seems totally unrepentant.
Irrespective of Cllr Devine’s personal views he should not use this kind of language ever, and in total contradiction to the Council’s own published code of ethics. I therefore demand that he gives a full retraction and public apology to the 2.1m private Landlords (most of whom are Conservative voters or maybe were Conservative now) without whom 4.5m people would not have a roof over their heads. I seriously feel that such a person is “unfit” to hold public office, and should resign.
I am equally astounded that such ill-informed remarks which I have come to expect from hard Left activists should emanate from an elected supposed Conservative Councillor
I look forward to your reply.
Barry Fitzpatrick
TheMaluka
13:54 PM, 30th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Barry Fitzpatrick" at "30/12/2015 - 12:51":
Thank you Barry, I intend to submit a similar (but not so erudite) email to arrive in her inbox on Tuesday morning.
Barry Fitzpatrick
14:02 PM, 30th December 2015, About 8 years ago
The more complaints she gets the better, particularly from people in Wiltshire.