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9:11 AM, 24th December 2015, About 8 years ago 114
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Ever since the Summer Budget we have been encouraging Property118 members to actively lobby their local elected officials to explain the real life consequences of Clause 24 of The 2015 Finance Bill (Restrictions on Finance Cost Relief For Individual Landlords).
The vast majority of responses have been gratitude for highlighting the consequences of clause 24 and the increased homelessness issues it is likely to create. Slowly but surely we are amassing a growing level of public sector support, and concern in terms of how the consequences of a shrinking or stagnating private rented sector will affect local economies and homelessness as of 2017 when the new legislation begins to get phased in.
Below is the shocking response received from Councillor Chris Devine (Conservative – Wiltshire) to a very polite, very well worded report sent to him by one of our Property118 campaign team members.
Chris Devine Cllr.
“So Gareth, how many properties do you own? Your email is deeply flawed, do you seriously believe that the `buy to let` brigade give a fig for those they are exploiting with high rents and short tenancies.
Stop thinking about your own pocket and think about society, you lot are nothing, but, parasites and the sooner you are taxed out of existence the better.
Just because I am a Conservative does not mean that I do not have a social conscience, well done to George Osbourne. As for you. Try doing some public service and stop snivelling.
Chris Devine, Cllr”
Needless to say, we were shocked!
We asked Cllr James Fraser (Conservative – Stevenage), who has been incredibly supportive of our campaigning, what could be done.
Cllr Fraser immediately wrote the following email to Cllr Chris Devine …
“Dear Cllr Devine,
I refer to your recent email to Gareth Wilson, a friend of mine who, like me, is somewhat surprised by the level of rudeness and ignorance shown in your response (not to mention the lack of grammatical skill nor the simple ability to spell Osborne).
Gareth had correctly tried to bring to your attention the impossible position small investors and businesses were being put in by some government policy that, directly or indirectly, several million people will be affected by over the next four years.
Perhaps not surprisingly, you have proven how little an understanding you have of the situation. Has it not occurred to you that many of your constituents, even people who voted for you, are investors in homes? Do you feel that the large percentage of Conservative MPs who rent property are ‘parasites’? Or is Wiltshire unique among English counties in that they have an unending supply of council stock to offer to the tenants you would so willingly displace from their privately-rented homes?
Incredibly, you feel that insulting people who contribute vast sums of money and endless hours of time to alleviating the pressure on council stock is you having a conscience and doing something useful for society. What a strange way to view yourself.
You don’t offer any explanation for why Gareth’s email is ‘deeply flawed’, probably because it isn’t. The information contained within it is referenceable from the highest and best researched of sources and luckily has been received with a lot more intelligence by other Conservative councillors nationwide.
Your deeply offensive descriptions and frankly ill-informed opinions are an embarrassment to those of us who are both Conservatives and who work in housing as a profession. They fall well short of standards expected of public officials. To this end I have reported your email to your group leader, the council Chief Exec and your local press, who ought to know how their elected representatives address members of the public expressing their genuine concerns.
Sincerely
Cllr James Fraser
Deputy Leader of the Conservatives
Stevenage Borough Council”
Cllr Fraser then followed this up by making the following formal complaint to Cllr Devine’s boss ….
“Dear Cllr Britton,
I feel I must bring to your attention the reply below received from Cllr Devine after an email from one Gareth Wilson outlining some consequences of the government’s Clause 24.
Gareth Wilson had written a well-researched and intelligent piece to bring to your attention a ruinous policy that will affect millions of people nationwide and no doubt a good many of your constituents.
This reply falls well short of the standards required of a public official. To call the writer – a friend of mine – a ‘parasite’ who Devine wants ‘taxed out of existence’ and who should ‘stop snivelling’ is deeply offensive and worthy of reporting to your local press.
Devine clearly has no knowledge of the sector, nor its contribution to relieving pressure on council housing stock, nor the kind of care and commitment it takes to be a private landlord, of which I too am such a worthless parasite who should clearly do more for society.
Sincerely
Cllr James Fraser
Deputy Leader, Conservatives
Stevenage Borough Council”
Councillor Chris Devine (Conservative – Wiltshire) Named and Shamed https://t.co/jBAQQ7xEWe @wiltshiretimes pic.twitter.com/OXtQ4ZsFOt
— Mark Alexander (@iAmALandlord) December 24, 2015
This article shows the level of ignorance #Landlords are up against https://t.co/jBAQQ7xEWe Cllr named & shamed
— Mark Alexander (@iAmALandlord) December 24, 2015
#Landlord basher gets his comeuppance https://t.co/jBAQQ7xEWe
— Mark Alexander (@iAmALandlord) December 24, 2015
Dr Rosalind Beck
14:18 PM, 30th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Barry Fitzpatrick" at "30/12/2015 - 14:02":
Yes, well done Barry. People should not be able to get away with promoting vile hatred of one group of professionals. We've seen it in the past - e.g. with social workers. The media whips up hatred with horror stories relating to a few individuals who don't behave as they should and ignorant, thick people jump on the bandwagon as though they were saying something new, when they're just mindless sheep, incapable of independent thought and in his case in it to try and get the votes of the 'haters.'
Mandy Thomson
14:57 PM, 30th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Ros ." at "30/12/2015 - 14:18":
Yes - landlords are being pilloried in the court of public opinion, just for being landlords, and there is currently no public body to defend us.
TheMaluka
14:58 PM, 30th December 2015, About 8 years ago
My contribution
Dear Councillor Baroness Scott,
I write to you in your role as leader of Wiltshire council.
You must be aware of the sentiments expressed by Councillor Chris Devine concerning landlords. I make no comment on what he said but object strongly to the offensive manner in which it was expressed. Councillor Devine is a disgrace to the conservative party and to his fellow councillors, certainly guilty of unacceptable behaviour for a person in public office. That he is unrepentant adds insult to injury.
I trust that you will encourage him to consider his position.
Yours sincerely
David Price
TheMaluka
15:02 PM, 30th December 2015, About 8 years ago
And to the man himself
Dear Councillor Devine,
You recently expressed some strong views concerning landlords. You have every right to hold and express your opinion but I object strongly to the offensive manner in which it was expressed. You have let down both the Conservative party and your fellow councillors and are certainly guilty of unacceptable behaviour for a person in public office. That you are unrepentant adds insult to injury.
You spoke as a councillor not as a private individual. In the circumstances your only dignified option is to resign your position as a councillor.
David Price
Chris Byways
16:53 PM, 30th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Chris Byways" at "25/12/2015 - 21:23":
I still have not had an acknowledgement of my Christmas Day letter to his boss.
I copied to the other depts in the council, so the leader can't just hide it away, tried to send to conservative central office, but that could only be done through the contact form, and that is limited to 512 characters, not words!
But reminded them of what the web site says about the importance of PRS.....
“There is a high demand for affordable homes in Wiltshire, and across the UK in general. There were over 20,500 households registered for re-housing within Wiltshire alone with the numbers growing daily. Demand will always outweigh supply so the Council needed to ensure that those with the greatest need were prioritised for re-housing.
Wiltshire Council recognises the importance of the private rented sector in providing housing for its residents.
In Wiltshire there are in excess of 1700 properties that have been empty for more than 6 months. With demand for housing continuing to increase Wiltshire Council recognises the importance of making best use of existing homes. Returning empty homes to use has the following advantages;
- maintain the quality of the area and neighbouring property values,
- reduce the pressure to build on Greenfield sites to accommodate the extra homes that are needed to meet housing need,
- increase the housing options of those looking for a home in Wiltshire through additional availability, reduce the number of crime hotspots in the area, reduce anti-social behaviour.”
CC'd
housing.strategy@wiltshire.gov.uk
investigations@wiltshire.gov.uk
pressteam@wiltshire.gov.uk
committee@wiltshire.gov.uk
Perhaps the manure will collide with the air-con next week when they get down to business.........
Mandy Thomson
17:21 PM, 30th December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Chris Byways" at "30/12/2015 - 16:53":
They will only have a skeleton staff on duty over the holiday, in common with most public organisations.
Gary Dully
10:03 AM, 31st December 2015, About 8 years ago
I am tempted to highlight what i would say, if I met this councilor face to face.
"I think you should reconsider your comments as you are obviously hold bigoted views"
He said what he said to cause an effect, the great British public have yet to be educated on how to be on the receiving end of bigotry feels.
In the last century things were said to cause offense and hurt people, if they were black, they were called "n*****s", if they were Asian they were "ch**'k's and if from India or Pakistan , well I won't even bother going there.
So now the councilor is barred by law to prevent him being a racist, we now have his prejudices defended as being acceptable via somebody's occupation instead of their race.
Can he define how I am a parasite in this century as he would have called my father an Irish bog trotter parasite in the last, as he was Irish, a businessman and an immigrant?
He thinks his remarks aren't offensive, but I have just made anyone reading this aware of how offensive he could have been had he said it only about 25 years ago.
Sorry if I have upset anybody, but when the Irish were at war with themselves, I can vividly remember my father having to justify why he had the right to live in the UK with a bigoted oaf in the high street.
It wasn't pleasant.
Mandy Thomson
10:27 AM, 31st December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Gary Dully" at "31/12/2015 - 10:03":
Good argument for illustrating the level of offence caused, but race, gender, disability etc are immutable. It would be more accurate to compare landlords to other professions/occupations that have been pilloried through trial by public opinion.
Obviously, comparing us to bankers would not be helpful, however, around 6 years ago I had just taken redundancy from the civil service, and at the time civil servants were being described as "soft", "lazy" etc because of our previous relative job security and excellent pensions (Ros also cited a good example of social workers on a previous post on this thread).
However, I don't see civil servants being slated by the public any more, as the public sector has suffered mass redundancies and pensions have changed. The court of public opinion has also softened somewhat towards those on benefits, as the prolonged economic downturn has meant more of us being more likely to join their ranks.
If we can make the public aware of just how unfair Clause 24 is, which will happen by default through the legal challenge, even if we don't win, it WILL publicise our cause, so hopefully public opinion will start to change.
Gary Dully
11:02 AM, 31st December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Mandy Thomson" at "31/12/2015 - 10:27":
Hello Mandy,
Point taken, however as I have already written, I remember my father being told that he was a terrorist sympathiser, he was apparently also stealing our jobs and then having to put up with some buffoon trying to do an impression of an Irish accent all within 90 seconds of each other.
I was aged about 14 and I thought I was going to get lynched.
I was sat in a car with a guy from Pakistan about 10 years later and both he and I had to listen to two English and Scottish fellow passengers tell me and by default him also, that Black people in South Africa couldn't handle their own affairs because they were black and wouldn't understand, like white people could, the complexities of running a business or South Africa.
I was actually stunned by their beliefs, these were 2 solicitors that I respected, ever since then I decided to make my own mind up over everything.
This councilor is from the same gene pool and as far as I'm concerned, he cant even suggest that he can deal with his constituents in a fair and balanced way.
That is what he is paid to do. If he has a private view that differs from the councils ethics, he's both a hypocrite and a liar.
He has even defended his remarks, in which case he's really requiring some scrutiny.
Even a convicted Paedophile in Prison will have a better tax position than Private Landlords after 'Clause24' kicks in and the poor sod who wrote to him, didn't deserve that response.
So when I hear a bigot, I don't hope that the big fairy of time inflation wears down the offending remark, I tend to get out of my Pram and have a bit of sport with them.
It's when you don't cause a fuss, or scream that it's a problem, because people think it's okay - it isn't.
Mandy Thomson
11:27 AM, 31st December 2015, About 8 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Gary Dully" at "31/12/2015 - 11:02":
Yes, I agree, Gary, though whatever characteristic you have or group you belong to you'll find some bigot who believes they have the God given right to have a go at you.
I've experienced this throughout my life by being:
-on the dole (immediately after leaving college many years ago)
-religious beliefs (or lack thereof)
-female (goes without saying!)
-a civil servant
-a landlord
-political beliefs
And last but not least, thanks for the reminder - nationality and race!
Like everyone, I've experienced this sometimes directly (like the idiot who harassed your father in the street) to simply reading polemic news articles and bigoted comments, and I'm not sure which is worse on balance.
However, I haven't yet encountered anyone who has criticised me for being a landlord to my face, or seemingly even disapproves (I'm usually met with, "wow, good for you!"), but I DID once encounter someone who thought I was somehow inferior because I was a career civil servant at the time! Now I just need to add "letting agent" to my CV and I'm made!! 🙂