Council Tax Responsibility and risky advice to tenant by CAB

@Antony Richards
I agree.
As a judge once said : I am now better informed but still none the wiser.
However, as with forums or this nature, lay opinions are what you get at the best of times. Dangerous advice other times.
You just got to sort the gems from the rest the best you can.
For professional advice, you have to pay or go to CAB !

@Antony Richards - I am a landlord with 24 years experience but I still learn something new every single day. I do not profess to know everything there is to know about this industry, nobody does. The fact that Property118 owns shares in a Letting Agency is irrelevant.

Property118 is an internet discussion forum and of course people are going to have different opinions, some will be right and some will be wrong, that's just life. The same can be said for the best brains in the world, even professors disagree on many things. Is coffee god or bad for your health for example.

Taking free advice from any internet forum is no different to taking advice from a man in the pub. As you say, it's just opinion. The only opinion that really counts for anything is that of a judge you may be standing in front of what day.

In debates like this it is important to listen to all opinions and if in doubt seek professional advice which is insured. That way, even if the opinion of the professional adviser is wrong there is recourse to claim damages.

The alternative is to take a commercial view on the balance of probability. Quoting case law, such as Industry Observer has done is very helpful for further research.

If you think you know the answer to the question posed in this thread then feel free to post your opinion and better still if you can provide a link to a case supporting your views.

"For professional advice, you have to pay or go to CAB !"

Hmm... My obvious response would have to be deleted. Suffice to say advice is often worth what you pay for it and the CAB is free. No doubt there are some good exceptions.

I shall make one observation on this that often appears to be missed by landlords and council tax departments.

Broadly, the laibility to council tax usually falls on the person with legal right to occupation. The fact that a tenant moves out lives elsewhere etc does not alter the fact they are liable. If they are paying rent (or should be paying rent) then the laibility attaches to them.

It is a constant irritant the number of times Wayne or Sharon in the council finance department ask tenant when they moved in or out rather than when the tenancy started or ended.

@Robert M - so in this case then, has the tenancy ended or not in your opinion given that the tenancy has been surrendered and the deposit is to be used in lieu of notice?

@Robert M

'...Suffice to say advice is often worth what you pay for it and the CAB is free......'
I agree the operative words are 'often' and 'free'.

'For professional advice, you have to pay or go to CAB !'
You pay for what you get. That does not mean 'you get what you paid for'.
The quality of advice, whether professional or CAB, is a different matter entirely.
In this case, CAB obviously fell short.

@Mark
DPS said they cant release the deposit unless I give them the 5 digit deposit no or we will have to go through a very long drawn out process.
This is entirely new to us as we have a very low turnover rate and hardly any problems with deposit. Wonder if we are the only ones who dont know.

Does anybody know how much DPS makes or what they do with the deposit money ? Indeed, how is the deposit money protected ? What happens to the money if DPS goes bust ?

@Sam
You 5 digit repayment ID was sent to you as part of the conformation email when you protected the deposit. Alternatively to get a reminder of this ID just click on 'Send Repayment ID Reminder' on the DPS website for that deposit.

You still wont get the deposit repaid unless the tenant does the same with their repayment ID though. Otherwise you need to start the single claim process with the DPS. And yes this is a pain as it involves sworn statements witnessed by your solicitor etc.

@Sam - I've never used DPS personally as I like to hang on to the money myself for all the reasons you have outlined in your questions. I protect my deposits though the My|Deposits scheme. I pay a small premium and I retain control of the money.

"So in this case then, has the tenancy ended or not in your opinion given that the tenancy has been surrendered and the deposit is to be used in lieu of notice?"

One of those interesting cases where what you say can have a very significant effect. If I understand the position correctly the landlord has possession early and the keys have been returned without notice.

If there was a conversation: "I need to go now and you can keep my deposit in lieu of notice – OK?" In this case I would say you have agreed to an early termination.

However, if the conversation was: "I need to go now and you can keep my deposit to pay for the last month's rent – OK?" In this case I would say you have agreed to a normal termination.

Now the practical effect is the same. Tenant has gone earlier than expected, landlord has possession. However the possible effect of what was said is very different.

Council tax on voids adds up, so I would always follow up with an email or letter making it quite clear that you were accepting the keys back before the end of the tenancy and would try to re-let as soon as possible and refund part of the rent if this was possible with an overlap. This way you are being as reasonable as possible but not taking over a council tax liability just because the tenant's circumstances have changed or they cannot plan in advance.

@Robert M - what an excellent post. I bet most people haven't thought things through like that, I certainly hadn't. Thanks for the tip 🙂

Robert M is spot on with his analysis given the different scenarios and that is the argument I use with the council re Council Tax and to define the contractual period..

The only fly in the ointment is 'Where is the notice' as a conversation is not a notice to quit whatever is said. The same Court of Appeal ruling i referred to above also ruled that any notice must be in writing. It is therefore important to advise your tenants that it is in their best interests that they give you notice in writing or they continue to be liable for not only council tax but rent and all other utilities that accrue.

In addition if you do not have notice in writing from your tenant and you then re-let then you could be accused of illegal eviction. Of course we all make decisions based on commercial judgements but its important to know what the judgement is you are making.