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9:09 AM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago 26
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Hello, My tenant has just sent me an email from Virgin Media asking for her to gain permission from the landlord to allow her to have internet set up at a flat.
Virgin Media want me to sign a Wayleave Form.
On the one hand its nice to be asked for a change – I’ve never had a media company tell the tenant to ask the LL, so I am wondering if this is a new thing?
In principle this sounds like they just need to fit a box etc, but then I’ve read the first terms and conditions and thought…hang on a min…
Anyone else had this with VM or another provider? Did you say yes or no??
Thank you,
DSR
Agreement allowing access to property to install or maintain
electronic communications apparatus
This agreement is made under the electronic communications code set out in schedule 3A to
the Communications Act 2003 (as amended and as may be further amended, modified,
replaced or brought back into effect) (‘the code’).
This agreement is between us, Virgin Media Limited (company number 2591237) whose
registered office is at Media House, Bartley Wood Business Park, Hook RG27 9UP, an operator
(as defined in the code), and you, the owner of the property listed below on this page.
Your full name: …………………………………………………………………………………………………..
We need written permission to allow us to install, operate and maintain electronic
communications and media apparatus (as defined in the code) (‘the apparatus’), which forms
part of our electronic communications network.
Owner’s declaration
I grant you the rights listed in clause A below, on the terms and conditions stated below for the
following property.
The property: ……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Your signature: ………………………………………………………………………………………………….
TERMS AND CONDITIONS
Standard terms and conditions
A. Our rights
1) You grant us the right to install, operate, keep and inspect the apparatus on, over or under the property and to carry out work on the
property that is necessary to install, operate, maintain, adjust, inspect, alter, add to, connect to, replace, repair or remove the apparatus
and use the apparatus, and to enter the property and access the apparatus for these purposes.
2) You grant us the right to interfere and obstruct any means of access to the property.
3) You grant us the right to lop or cut back or ask you to lop or cut back any tree or vegetation that interferes with the apparatus.
B. Your obligations
4) You confirm that you are the freehold owner of the property, or you lease the property under a lease for a term of a year or more and
that you are entitled to grant these rights.
5) You must not knowingly do or allow anyone else to do anything which causes damage or is likely to damage or interfere with the
apparatus.
6) You must give us at least six months’ written notice if you plan to carry out any work which will or is likely to have a negative effect on
the apparatus.
7) Nothing in this agreement will prevent or restrict you from altering, developing or redeveloping any buildings, property or land (you must
still keep to clause B.6 above and any restrictions stated in the code).
C. Responsibility and liability
8) We will take all reasonable precautions to reduce as far as possible any damage when carrying out our rights under this agreement,
and will repair, to your reasonable satisfaction, any damage we cause to the property.
9) We will cover you against liability for all third-party claims, costs, proceedings and damages (‘claims’) arising out of us failing to keep to
this agreement or being negligent in carrying out our rights under this agreement as long as you tell us about any claim as soon as
possible, do not agree or settle any claim without first getting written permission from us or our insurers (which will not be unreasonably
withheld or delayed), make reasonable efforts to reduce your losses, and allow us to defend the claim in your name. We will cover the
cost of defending the claim.
10) Our liability to you under or in connection with this agreement will be limited to £2,000,000 (two million pounds), and does not include
any liability for any indirect or consequential loss (including loss of profits, business, revenue, contracts or anticipated savings). We do
not restrict or limit our liability to you for death or personal injury caused by our negligence.
11) The apparatus will always remain our property (both while this agreement is in force and after it ends).
D. Length of this agreement
12) This agreement will remain in force from the date written above for the whole period during which we are an operator (as defined in the
code).
13) If you want to terminate this agreement, you must give us at least 18 months’ written notice stating why. We have the right to serve a
counter notice within 3 months’ of receiving your notice to terminate, and can also apply to the court within 3 months of serving our
counter notice to request that we can continue to exercise our rights under this agreement and the code.
E. General
14) Any notice you or we give under this agreement must be in writing and will be considered to have been given to the other if it is
delivered by hand or sent by ordinary first-class post and addressed to the last known address of the other party. (Any notice you send
to us must be sent to our registered office and marked for the attention of Legal Affairs.) Notice delivered by hand will be effective
immediately and notice sent by post will be effective 48 hours after posting.
15) We may transfer or share the benefit of this agreement and any rights it provides with any person who the code applies to under the
Communications Act 2003 (as amended, modified, replaced or brought back into effect). Where we refer to ‘us’ or ‘we’ in this
agreement, this also includes anyone we transfer the rights to or share the benefits with.
16) You and we agree that this agreement does not create a relationship of landlord and tenant.
17) This agreement is binding. You cannot cancel, amend or alter it without our written permission, except as stated in the code.
18) This agreement is governed by laws of England and Wales and disputes arising out of this agreement will be decided in courts of
England.
19) Unless we tell you otherwise and except as stated in the code, nothing in this agreement will give any person any rights under the
Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.
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Reluctant Landlord
14:53 PM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago
Reply to the comment left by at 14/03/2023 - 14:40
Just called Virgin. They wont do a site visit UNTIL after the wayleave is signed.
I don't trust virgin anyway.
I have replied to tenant to say there there is already an Openreach box on the side of the wall of the building so any (non Virgin) provider can use the existing BT copper feed.
I note the point about the additional electric socket - I have assumed she just wants internet, but if its a TV box then this will need to be put in too. She will have to be aware she bears any cost in this regard, but I will have a say on where it goes in the flat too.
DGM
15:59 PM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago
I own a flat in a managed block, I am one of the directors of the management company and we agreed to not sign the way leave as it is because it allows them so much power to abuse. They will not change it or make it site specific so we declined.
Thomas Lynch
16:10 PM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago
Ive recently had many problems with virgin over this on the tenant side. As i live in a rear back to back house, birgin needed permission from a neighbouring properties landlord. The only problem i had to find them myself and virgin refused to help. After around 2 months waiting for installation they told me this the same morning of the installation and refused to install because of it. After another 2 months of finding out my landlord also owns the neighbouring property but not through a letting agent. They refused for virgin to have her email or any contact information and so i had to go through the letting agent for them to talk to her for her to sign the letter for me to get fibre optic installed. All virgin needed to do was use the alleyway for the house to fit the wire they just needed the landlord to also sign the other house for them to get passed. After 4 months and alot of headaches i finally got fibre optic installed. Having fibre optic is such a huge improvement on the house and not worth all this hassle. Landlords should have theyre information available for this kind of stuff and for things like utilities should have little say in whether tenants can upgrade.
The Forever Tenant
16:49 PM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago
Its a fun one this as its only occasionally that Virgin will actually require this to be signed.
The previous place I lived, they asked for the wayleave document to be signed. The current one I am in, not a peep.
As some have said, this is basically getting your permission to drill a hold through the wall because the tenants cannot authorise that.
As for having an existing BT openreach box, just because that is there does not mean that the connection is any good. Virgin have their own network cabling at some pretty decent speeds, far beyond what and ADSL line will provide. It could also be that they also want a TV package that you cannot get through openreach.
Someone mentioned about clause 2, what they are effectively saying there is that they may block your driveway for a bit while they install everything.
I think the main crux of the matter is are you happy for them to have it installed, if yes, you are not going to have any issues in the future by signing it. If no, then just tell the tenants you don't want them to have it.
And for those that think I am completely on Virgins side on this, I'm really not. I just had their service removed as I was able to get a better service for cheaper. That and I also hate their customer service team with a passion.
Chris Brown
16:52 PM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago
I HAVE HAD OVER 20 YEARS OF THIS.
The first time was with a precursor to Virgn, but the import is the same. But the first time the tenant just let them in and we had cables as described below.
If you take time to read the wayleave form you will understand that by signing it to are allowing the supplier free uncontrolled access to run and fix cables anywhere they like; external spaghetti, dangling on the facade of your building, tacked-on skirtings, running around the architraves of doorways: untouchable by you.
They also require you to give notice of removal or relocation of the cable box which they fixed in a location to meet their need for speed, and they can take up to 6 months to respond. That will spike any alteration plans if it is required to be relocated. DON'T SIGN A WAYLEAVE.
When Virgin first appeared to install to a single flat in a block of five of ours, I asked that they install to all five at the same time, then they would have the best opportunity to get all the tenants. Same again at our next, when we had the whole 4-flat building. gutted No, they wouldn't do that, only install for a contracted customer. But why not cooperate and install the cables and grab the new tenants when they arrive? They still only have 3 of the 4 flats, 20 years later.
This discussion went on for a long time. In the end, I suggested that if I was given the cables, and decided on the entry point and box location, I would lay the cables under the floorboards, and give discreet access from the street. This has worked well for 18 years.
They have no wayleave rights, their junction box is in a safe place out of harm's way, and my tenants have Virgin cables in most of the flats. As long term non-virgn tenants leave, during the refit we run new Virgin cables, with spare at each end. (We also run in the cabling for EVCs, where the provider advises the local substation can support it). But no tenants have taken up the option to buy an electric vehicle pay and install their own charger yet.
Beware of letting Virgin in unsupervised, if you want your building to be tidy. Insist to both Virgin and the Tenant that you are there to ensure tidy work. It is your property. The tenant has no right to grant access to the rest of the building, only the flat But you won't get them to hide the cables internally unless you do it yourself.
DON'T SIGN A WAYLEAVE especially if it involves wayleave access across gardens and driveways without a lot of thought to the long-term consequences. If you do, you are given what is effet a long-term free tenancy over your property to a very unresponsive organisation, who jump to their needs, not yours. Unless you reach an understanding.
The other way around this is to get the first tenant to install the highest speed connection and to share the passwords and bill with the others. It is much the cheapest, has the least installation, and everyone will be happy, as long as the prime tenant stays and pays the bills.
So far I have been unable to get Virgin to let me have a variable contract so that I share the passwords with the tenants. This would be the simplest, least amount of wires, and might just require a booster or two in a large building.
Be warned; they are cowboys at heart. In and out quick.
Reluctant Landlord
17:15 PM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago
Reply to the comment left by Chris Brown at 14/03/2023 - 16:52
I've told the tenant no to Virgin (because of the totally unreasonable wayleave ) and asked her to find a supplier that can use the existing Openreach box.
I cannot find a way of contacting Openreach myself to find out exactly what the status of the current box is on the outside wall. No phone number and robot chat useless as does not connect to a human. I am assuming that there is an internal box in each flat that connects to the external box, as it is believed each flat had a BT phone point fitted.
Best the tenant call up X company of her choice (not Virgin) and say there is an Openreach box and then X company must be able to determine the status of what's there if they want to supply her.
Reluctant Landlord
17:27 PM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago
Reply to the comment left by The Forever Tenant at 14/03/2023 - 16:49Thanks for your perspective. I've said no to Virgin. I am assuming at this stage she just wants internet access. Granted X other company might be as fast as VM, but like you say their customer service is non existent.
If she wants specific TV package that can't be provided with the current connections as is then she will need to investigate this and come back to me as that may mean (like someone else said) internal works for a socket and more boxes on the wall which I don't think is really necessary (and all costs which she will be liable for). Last thing I want is a whole host of boxes on the wall that just keeps being added to each time a new tenant comes in and wants something different....
Chris Brown
18:27 PM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago
In today's world you will get better tenants if your flats offer easy connections to the services they need. It's just a question of stopping the providers from trashing or degrading your premises.
If you don't sign the wayleave, they have no right of access; unless the lobbyists get the rules changed, again: ask anyone who leased land for a phone mast.
Sorry about missing letters in my earlier post: my keyboard is as tired as my eyes.
David Houghton
18:36 PM, 14th March 2023, About A year ago
It really isn't as onerous as it appears, they just want to run some optic fibre. Pretty much all the local landowners agreed round my way. It's not granting an easement or permanent right
Old Mrs Landlord
9:23 AM, 18th March 2023, About A year ago
Reply to the comment left by DSR at 14/03/2023 - 17:27
Presumably the fact that this is a flat in a block means the management company have to be involved, especially as there is the possibility of access being restricted for other residents, unless of course you own the entire block. Often the exterior walls of a purpose-built block of flats are not the property of the owners of individual flats, who are in fact merely leaseholders.