Section 21 – multiple tenancy agreements and gas certificates?

Section 21 – multiple tenancy agreements and gas certificates?

9:24 AM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago 11

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Hi everyone, I would really appreciate any sort of suggestions on what to do. I have had the same tenants for 10 years since 2013 and I want to move back into the property so I’m thinking of serving a section 21. I signed around 4 tenancy agreements over the 10 years.

I’m aware I need the gas certificate from when they first occupied the property (something I no longer have) but this was before 1st October 2015 when this was not a requirement. However, the tenancy agreements I signed post Oct 2015, I was slacking on gas certificates. I have the gas certificates for the last two years as well as the odd ones from previous years.

A new replacement agreement was signed at the start of this year where there was a gas certificate in place and given to the tenant.

So my question is, will my section 21 be invalid if I don’t have a gas certificate at the start for all the previous tenancies signed post-2015? Or does the one from when they first moved in and the one from the most recent tenancy be sufficient for a Section 21?

Thank you,

Kay


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Easy rider

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9:39 AM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

The S21 should be valid as you had a Gas Safe Certificate when the tenancy started. Unfortunately, judges don’t always know the law.

Moving back in is a mandatory ground under Section 8. Use an eviction specialist.

Simon F

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10:34 AM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

Play nice. Let the tenants know informally and apologetically that you need to move back in , it's not their fault and it's not about rent, but they will be recieving formal notice very soon, and you'll give them a good reference etc -- they may well take the hint and not want the process to drag out and be acrimonious. But yes, do check if S21 or S8 works best if you need to go to court -- before serving.

DPT

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10:55 AM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

I dont think you can serve a valid 21 notice. The requirement to have a gas cert from the start of the tenancy and then annually thereafter and give copies to the tenant has been in place since 1998. Its only been linked to the s21 process since 2015, but you indicated that you've renewed the tenancy after this date. Unless you can find a copy of the original and most recent GSCs and give copies to the tenant prior to service of the s21, then I dont fancy your chances. Speak to a housing solicitor to be sure. They may also be able to tell you what your chances are of using s8 ground 1.

Judith Wordsworth

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11:41 AM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

Slacking on gas certificates? Do you mean you didn’t bother doing them? And landlords wonder why we’re being bashed and tighter regulations!!!

The company you got to do the gas certificate in 2015 should have a copy. If you can’t remember which company your bank statement will tell you. Failing that your tenant might still have their copy.

If your tenants are or were on housing benefit you would have had to forward the first gas certificate applicable to the tenancy to the Local Housing Benefits office.

Jo Westlake

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11:59 AM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

Surely in this day and age there should be an accessible register of gas safety certificates.
Anyone issuing a certificate is registered as Gas Safe. Some produce the certificate on their laptop and email it to the client, so uploading it to a register wouldn't be difficult.
The old fashioned triplicate paper version are more difficult. Even if a certificate has been safely filed away since the start of a tenancy they are often impossible to read as the ink has faded to nothing.

Michael Booth

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13:47 PM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

Your cp12 supplier should have computer copies ask before going further .

David Houghton

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14:04 PM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

There is case law where you can remedy a gap in has safety certificates as long as they had one when the moved in (post 2015). To the best knowledge it does not address renewals. So check the case law and the statute. It's not different to read. Serve s21 and write a witness statement that there are gaps in the gsc's and quote the case law and you should be fine. At the same play nice, explain to your tenant the situation, and offer him some help with his deposit. You probably wouldn't get the court costs back anyway so you won't lose out

dismayed landlord

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14:58 PM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Simon F at 23/11/2023 - 10:34
This is good advice and it’s how I have eased out a couple in the past.

Jason

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20:02 PM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

You shouldn’t need an eviction specialist if you have a sensible conversation with the tenant before serving any formal notice. I just hope you have been charging or increasing the rent to keep up with market rate otherwise this could cause an issue if there is a massive gap and the tenant cannot afford to move/pass new affordability checks. You can serve S8G1 & S21 notices separately and at the same time that way if your S21 turns out to be invalid you don’t have to wait to serve S8 and/or you can pick which one to proceed with but hopefully it won’t come to that. As said previously offer a cracking reference and if using an agent see if they have something upcoming as if the tenant is goid the agent will want to keep them in thier book also. Good luck

David Houghton

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20:16 PM, 23rd November 2023, About 11 months ago

The legislation is
"the date of the check; and (b) a copy of the last record made in respect of each appliance or flue is given to any new tenant of premises to which the record relates before that tenant occupies those premises save that, in respect of a tenant whose right to occupy those premises is for a period not exceeding 28 days, a copy of the record may instead be prominently displayed within those premises.". The phrase that's important here is "BEFORE THAT TENANT OCCUPIES". So yes as long as you had a valid gas safety certificate before serving s21 you are ok

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