Judge declaring anything in advance as a DEPOSIT?

Judge declaring anything in advance as a DEPOSIT?

10:10 AM, 17th October 2022, About 2 years ago 26

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Has any Judge let Tenants on a Section 8 countersue by deciding money in advance is a DEPOSIT that should have been protected?

Even after Johnson vs Old 2013 He appears satisfied the contract says money isn’t a deposit for any damages etc but possibly still wants to set a ‘president’ that any money taken above one month’s rent is legally a deposit!

This is a specific example from our County Court ‘section 8 eviction’ hearing. We are the landlord.

As part of a Shorthold Tenancy, One month’s Rent for the FIRST MONTH of living in our property was taken IN ADVANCE and One month’s Rent for the LAST MONTH was taken.

Whilst the judge acknowledged that the contract states clearly it is not a deposit and is not security against any damage, he looked at one of his books and decided ‘any’ money in advance might be a Deposit and therefore needed to be secured via the Deposit Scheme and allow a tenant’s counterclaim into the many thousands. Flying in the face of the Johnson vs Old case on the matter.

May we ask please, is he correct?

By enlargement, we suppose that if he makes this ‘Legal President’ then if a tenant pays 6 months or a year’s rent on entering tenancy, all but the first month, may become a deposit?

Lesley


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Comments

Lesley

15:56 PM, 14th November 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 20/10/2022 - 13:25
UPDATE

The tenants are almost 20k in arrears now,
accelerated it, by not having paid anything in the 4 months of the court process

In the 21st SEPT Hearing the Judge gave them 3 weeks ending 19th OCTOBER
The court replied via email today:
To date, no Defence or Counterclaim has been filed in this matter.

Can we presume the tenants time is up and we should email the Court
ASKING FOR A JUDGEMENT IN DEFAULT?

Graham Bowcock

15:57 PM, 14th November 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by LP at 14/11/2022 - 15:29
You need to go and see a good preoprty lawyer asap. If you are owed £20k already, then this position will not improve without you investing in some formal advice.

Seething Landlord

16:19 PM, 14th November 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by DSR at 14/11/2022 - 15:48
Sorry but you simply cannot use the shortcomings in the administration of universal credit to justify circumventing the regulations regarding deposits.

Regarding your final sentence, it is abundantly clear that what you describe is a deposit, i.e. money taken as security for a future obligation.

What does your tenancy agreement say about the purposes for which the deposit can be used? Properly drafted it will include unpaid rent and you will have stated this in the prescribed information given to the tenant in relation to the protection of the deposit. It follows that any money that you have taken to protect yourself against the possibility of there being unpaid rent at the end of the tenancy is in fact a deposit.

Tony Clements

16:37 PM, 10th December 2022, About A year ago

How long before rent is weekly as next weeks is in advance? maybe daily like a hotel.

Smiffy

8:15 AM, 11th December 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by LP at 20/10/2022 - 17:33
40 cats in a closed house?

Jeez, you are probably going to need to burn the place down once you get possession.

Where did all the cats come from, were they taking them in from one of these cat protection charities? Warning to all landlords, to act immediately if multiple cats suddenly appear.

Heather G.

12:46 PM, 27th January 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Smiffy at 11/12/2022 - 08:15
I read this with interest as we have a tenant who wants to pay the whole year in advance. We've only every done monthly rentals. Could someone please suggest the appropriate wording for the AST which would apply to taking 12 months' rent in advance (as well as 5 weeks deposit)?

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