Council want proof front door complies with FD30S fire regs?

Council want proof front door complies with FD30S fire regs?

8:54 AM, 4th January 2017, About 5 years ago 24

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I have had a letter from the local Council asking me for proof that the front door to my flat is a FD30S door. This means is it a fire door that is self closing and able to be 30-minute fire resistance. FD30S

I do not know if the door is FD30S compliant as it is the door that was fitted to the property when it was built in the 1960’s under the then building regs.

The property is an ex local Council property that I lived in before I purchased it and later moved out and started to then rent it out. There are six flats in the block all the other flats had their doors replaced by the Council several years ago, mine was not as I lived there then and did not want to pay the Council £2000+ to replace it.

I have not done any significant improvements apart from replacing the boiler and windows. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you

Alan



Comments

by Alan bus

14:02 PM, 4th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ian Narbeth" at "04/01/2017 - 13:01":

Hi Ian, I have no problem complying with the law. As I read the law (Regulatory Reform (fire safety) order 2005) it only needed to be a FD30S door IF I were to replace the original door as fitted per building regs then and not building regs now. I do fully intend to replace it now that I have been made aware of the new regs. As for "responsible landlords should get educated" I agree to a point. Do all landlords know all the rules and regs? I doubt it. Sometimes we have to learn as we go along. This and my other properties comply in so far as I know with due regards to the law, gas, epc, smoke alarms, contracts, etc. I read this forum and others. I speak with the Council if I am not sure, however as stated, in this case I was not sure IF I needed to change the door IF it was an original one as fitted by the Council under building regs when first fitted. I have properties that the council use to house those in need and wonder why this "request" has come out of the blue. I have been letting this flat since 2003 and this is the first time the Council has had cause to write to me concerning fire risk assessment. I have successfully defended myself in court against the Council when they have tried to obtain money from me when they spend money on the "block" but are not payable by myself. So my Question was really on a point of law. Thank you for your reply and also to all those that took the time to help me.

by Yvette Newbury

14:32 PM, 4th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Apologies if I have missed information here, but if it is an ex-local authority property and therefore presumably a leasehold flat, then isn't the front door part of the building and therefore you aren't allowed to replace it? This is the case in my ex-local authority properties and I would have to ask permission to replace it and have to put up with the doors that the council decides to install (and overpay for the privilege!). If that is true in your case then surely you should be asking them if it is a fire protection door - they are your landlord.

by Adrian Jones

14:57 PM, 4th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Gary Dully" at "04/01/2017 - 09:46":

And that was several years ago. No wonder Councils can't manage their budgets.

I had one fitted a year ago and it cost me about £600. I asked the contractor to let me have the spec which I sent to the Council for confirmation it met their standards. No problem.

by Dave Dorricott

23:20 PM, 4th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Hi speaking as both a fire risk assessor and owner of a fire door company with a diploma in fire doors from the British Woodworking Federation (BWF) and ex fire service with over 27 years service, I would suggest the existing door will more than likely not be certified under current standards as alluded to above. I also agree the price mentioned above seems excessive but it depends of the quality of door and possibly frame if required. You certainly can obtain a more competitive quote from us at firedoors.com
We are the UK's No1 fire door experts, but you may not find us the cheapest.
Local Authorities are currently and have been for a while insistent on ensuring that common areas of means of escape are protected to current fire safety standards, that may mean your door needs to be FD30s certified, or failing that a company to certify your existing door which you may find just about impossible unless you want to pay a fortune and then it's not guaranteed to pass any examination.
My advice for what it's worth is speak to Cath at our offices and get a quick quote, tell her Dave suggested you contact her, she is very helpful and will sort your problem if you need a replacement. All our doors are certified to BS 476 Pt 22 and guranteed.
If you need to call the number is 01332 295576. Hope this helps, probably not what you want to hear but the local authority who were responsible for the block of flats where the fatalities occurred in 2009 at Lakenal House blaze are in court as the LFB have brought a prosecution (22charges) under the current fire safety law. There are a lot of LA's watching this with bated breath I can assure you. Type into google Lakenal House fire prosecution and have a read, it will I think make you more aware of the need for a compliant fire door.
Hope this helps but give me a bell if you wish to discuss further. Phone number on our web site justfiredoors.com
Regards Dave

by Dave Dorricott

23:34 PM, 4th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Dave Dorricott" at "04/01/2017 - 23:20":

Sorry left my phone number and contact details when clearly the rules say I shouldn't. Apologies to the mediator this was my error and I apologies for the mistake.

by White Rose Fire Safety

20:26 PM, 5th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "terry sullivan" at "04/01/2017 - 11:25":

They are not making it up as they go along, these policies have been put in place through consultation with the Fire Service and in line with Regulations.

A front door in a purpose built block of flats has to be a minimum of FD30.

This is as the common areas leading to exits need to be protected in the event of a fire in one of the flats so yes they are preventing the spread of fire internally.

Many local authorities also now operate "stay put" policies which is basically if there is a fire within the flats then stay there as the protection provided will be sufficient until the fire service arrive and control the incident.

I am not aware of all the ins and outs of funding within the local authorities etc but they are ensuring they are complaint by making sure all doors are a minimum of FD30 and in turn ensuring the residents are as safe as possible.

If only all landlords asked these kind of questions and were aware of the requirements then maybe we would not see the amount of prosecutions we see.

by Luke P

7:58 AM, 6th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "White Rose Fire Safety" at "05/01/2017 - 20:26":

Hi White Rose Fire Safety and welcome to the forum.

Being landlords, we come into contact with the LA an awful lot between us. Most of the time they make a complete hash of everything they touch, all whilst not having their own house in order. I can point to dozens of specifics where my own council are breaking the rules (but that's okay, because they are the Judge and Jury).

I don't think the post was purely intended as a matter-of-fact 'which door is required' kinda way, but also to highlight that if you don't pay their £2k fee, they will single you out.

In fact, there'd likely be a better response from landlords if the local Brigade gave the advice (even a warning) than the literally good-for-nothing-hypocritical council.

by White Rose Fire Safety

9:10 AM, 6th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Hi Luke

I understand your point and am no illusion that local authorities do act in the manner you and others state.

My comments were not a defence of their actions overall it was a reply to Terry explaining in this case they are not making it up it's a requirement that has also been consulted in with the Fire Service not just something they decided to implement theirselves but I fully understand the politics that go on and just wanted to make it clear on the Fire door issue.

I was also answering his question for the need for a fire door as a front door.

I advise purely on the fire safety side of things regarding the law and regulations and am happy to messaged at any time regarding any fire safety matter.

Kind Regards

James

by Luke P

12:21 PM, 6th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "White Rose Fire Safety" at "06/01/2017 - 09:10":

James,

Who would I report the LA to when they themselves have not complied? I have an elderly friend that lives in a council flat and notice an egg box 'front' door leading into the common area (the stairs)...it looks like all the other flats are the same.

by White Rose Fire Safety

12:30 PM, 6th January 2017, About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Luke P" at "06/01/2017 - 12:21":

It would be the local brigade that covers that area.

If they are made aware of situation they should carry out an audit on the flats then order the council to fix whatever findings they make.

Incidents like the blaze in Southwark highlighted councils needs to improve on fire safety and they should be ensuring they are compliant.


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