0:01 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago 11
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Hello, I’m hoping for some advice or a steer in the right direction. I own a first-floor flat with a BTL mortgage in a converted residential property where I have a share of freehold with the ground floor flat.
For a few years, the previous owner had an agreement where they got buildings insurance for the property. Since then, about 5 years ago, a new ground floor owner has moved in, and I’ve slightly neglected things as my wife had twins.
The new owner has taken out a buildings insurance policy, but just under her name and her flat and subsequently has made a subsidence claim which is underway.
So, I appear to be left with my flat having no buildings insurance! I don’t know if this is a responsibility issue in terms of her responsibility for the ground floor part of the lease an insurance issue where effectively she’s been missold, as she never should have been given buildings insurance for just her flat!
Do I need to get legal advice? Any thoughts to try and untangle this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Joe
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Member Since September 2014 - Comments: 19
10:05 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
What does the lease say? This is where the answer to your question will probably be.
Tim Rogers
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Member Since November 2017 - Comments: 257
10:13 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
I would expect there to be, an overarching company of some kind, (freehold company, management company, etc), which would have this responsibility on behalf of all the ‘freeholders’. It can be created and run by yourselves but it operates for the benefit of all, (collects ground rents, maintenance charges, pays communal lighting, arranges repairs, fire safety requirements, arranges insurance, etc). We have this structure for 2 of our properties, one where a guy takes a small salary for co-ordinating everything, the other where we pitch in as needed. Either way works well with good will.
The company should have been set up when the freehold was purchased/ shared out. If there doesn’t appear to be one, I’d query the solicitors involved with the freehold dealings and/or your own solicitors when you purchased.
Steve Rose
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Member Since September 2024 - Comments: 95
10:27 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
“I have a share of freehold with the ground floor flat”
Therein lies your answer. The document that sets out your part-ownership will also set out your responsibility to pay service charges as well as the responsibilities of the freeholder (ie both of you).
I have owned the lease on a flat for almost 20 years and almost every conversation I have with the Freeholder or the managing agent goes as follows:
“We’re going to do x ”
“You can’t do that, you have to do this instead.”
“Why?”
“Because that is what the lease says”
“Where?”
“Clause x, schedule y, page z”
“Oh!”
I’m thinking of charging them a consultancy fee!
Judith Wordsworth
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Member Since January 2015 - Comments: 1371
10:35 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
The Freeholders are responsible for insuring the building and as a joint freeholder you are jointly responsible.
As a joint freeholder (Landlord) you cannot slightly neglect anything.
If the WHOLE building insurance has been arranged by the new owner, as unlikely just their flat has been insured – though not unknown for this to happen – ask her to note your, AND any mortgagee as will be a requirement of your mortgage if you have one, on the buildings insurance policy AND then pay her your 50% of the policy premium. Any claim for subsidence will affect you and your flat.
As joint freeholders (Landlords) as well as individual Lessees (Tenants) how are you organising and paying for the upkeep of the building, the Lease stipulated redecorating etc etc?
Kizzie
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Member Since October 2022 - Comments: 393
10:36 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
There should be a deed of trust to your lease and one to the lease for the other flat which sets out how the building is managed.
This is a legally binding document protecting the contributions by the leaseholders to the two flats and should include building insurance arrangements.
Your conveyancer should have searched for this document which should be with your lease a separate legal document.
Insurance is for the whole property in both names in share of freehold interest and cover must match the leases which must be substantially the same.
You should have contents insurance for your contents but you can’t have building insurance just for your flat, it’s invalid and would contain untruths.
Go to an insurance broker with your documents and then approach your fellow leaseholder with the information and quote
Kate Gould
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Member Since February 2025 - Comments: 59
10:42 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
There doesn’t have to be a company set up to hold the freehold title. The freehold title could be in the joint names of the flat owners (in which case you would have been asked to sign a TR1 putting the freehold in the joint names of you and the new ground floor owner when they bought 5 years ago).
Either way, the leases of each of the flats should require the landlord (the freehold owner) to arrange buildings insurance. Then it’s a question of you agreeing with the other owner who is going to do the practical work of getting policy quotes and agreeing the premium with the other.
I agree with your idea of blaming the broker/company that sold the ground floor flat owner a buildings insurance policy that doesn’t cover the whole building. They’re the professionals, after all.
Kate Gould
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Member Since February 2025 - Comments: 59
10:48 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
Reply to the comment left by Kizzie at 06/06/2025 – 10:36
A deed of trust setting out rules for how the freehold ownership works might be a sensible idea, but it’s not necessary and may not exist. The flat leases set out what the freeholders have to do and how much each flat owner has to pay, so if the other freeholder doesn’t stick to the terms in the leases and ignores legal arguments then you can sue them. (Not that going to court is particularly efficient or easy.)
Kizzie
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Member Since October 2022 - Comments: 393
10:57 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
Kate
DOT may be a requirement by both mortgage companies to ensure that if building burns down their investment protected
VJM Waites
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Member Since April 2014 - Comments: 2
11:26 AM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
I own a flat similar to that described. There are separate entrances so no shared areas. I’m responsible for the roof and ground floor subsidence and drains. We have separate insurance. The owner of the ground floor flat purchased it a year ago.
Freda Blogs
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Member Since July 2013 - Comments: 742
13:08 PM, 6th June 2025, About 7 months ago
I had a similar situation with a very difficult freeholder who only insured her property. In the other years, when she refused to cooperate with me to organise the insurance for the two properties, my solicitor advised me to take out contingency insurance.
Mention that to your broker and they should recognise the term.