Tenants in situ – Previous landlord does not have Gas/Electric/DPS?

Tenants in situ – Previous landlord does not have Gas/Electric/DPS?

9:54 AM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago 76

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Hi All, Just a bit of advice please. I am in the process of purchasing my first buy to let and was expecting the property empty on completion.

The agent has now come back and stated that the property is tenanted. The tenants want to stay and the seller wants to sell the property with the tenants as he is in a hurry.

I have spoken to the seller who has advised that he was a first time landlord himself and the tenants were friends of a friend and he has not had any issues with them.

He advised that he got them to sign a generic AST in 2019 but did not know about the Gas Certificates/electric certificates or DPS. He does not have these but will get them done. He did take a deposit of them years ago.

Should I still continue and purchase the property?

Is there anything that can be done to rectify the situation or should just walk away?

Thanks,

Maz


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Comments

David Houghton

14:22 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by at 23/02/2023 - 14:16
Yes. You could it that way. Get legal advice for the buyer and the tenant to get legal advice both paid for by the seller.

Get a waiver signed by the tenant, documenting his access to legal advice and you might just get away with it. The problem is the gas safety certificate not being provided before he moved in. Whether this can be rectified is unknown. It may not be a problem f his tenancy started before the relevant change to legislation.

This means the seller tells the tenant he has security of tenure and has him over a barrel. Probably cheaper for the seller to pay the tenant to leave

SCP

14:43 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Annabel Blake at 23/02/2023 - 12:45
Top of my head: applying first principles, look at both the mandatory and discretionary grounds for possession.
I think it is only section 21 that will not be available if you have not provided the correct documentation and fulfilled all the pre-tenancy steps to be undertaken by the LL.
It is an interesting "academic" question raised by you.
Would be happy to learn, if somebody else has more to add.

David Houghton

14:52 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by SCP at 23/02/2023 - 14:43
Yes that's true only s21 won't be available. You can still use rent arrears, but how do you disprove there was any s11 disrepair prior to your purchase? You could say get the tenant to sign a waiver, then he turns up at court and says he signed it out of duress because he feared being homeless.

S8 is a risky way to go, much better to use s21 then MCOL

Not a, thing for the first timer (unless there is a big discount)

Seething Landlord

15:13 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by David Houghton at 23/02/2023 - 14:52
We seem to be going round in circles, S21 is not available as no gas safety certificate was given to the tenant prior to occupation.

SCP

15:18 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 23/02/2023 - 15:13
Actually, there is no circle.
S21 is out.
The academic question is: how else may a tenancy be ended.
My answer was: look at both the mandatory and the discretionary grounds.

David Houghton

15:20 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 23/02/2023 - 15:13
Dear Seething Yes, I was just pointing out S8 is fraught with problems, better to use s21, but he can't. So don't buy unless there is vacant possession. I.e. the seller bribes the tenant to leave.

SCP

15:21 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by David Houghton at 23/02/2023 - 14:52
I understand your feelings.
However, whether S8 is risky or not is not relevant.
The academic question is: in the absence of S21, how else may a tenancy be ended?

Seething Landlord

15:25 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Kate Mellor at 23/02/2023 - 13:42
The vendor is not an experienced landlord, he was a first timer who didn't know what he was doing and has landed himself in this mess which he is now hoping to pass on to an unsuspecting purchaser.

If a new tenancy is issued a S21 notice cannot be served within the first 4 months, regardless of whether it includes a fixed period.

SCP

15:25 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by David Houghton at 23/02/2023 - 15:20
I see the confusion.
You are replying to the original question.
I was replying to Annabel Blake's academic question.

Seething Landlord

15:34 PM, 23rd February 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by SCP at 23/02/2023 - 15:18
I think we are agreed on that which is why I said in a previous comment that the only way in which the landlord could obtain possession would be to establish grounds under S8.

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