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11:22 AM, 1st September 2012, About 12 years ago 27
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In this blog I intend to dispel a few urban myths which appear to be forming, both amongst landlords and squatters themselves judging from some of the readers emails I have received. As of today a person occupying a residential property without the owners permission is committing a criminal offence which is punishable by up to six months in prison and a £5,000 fine and can no longer claim squatters rights.
Yesterday evening I appeared on BBC News 24 and completed a down the line interview with Catherine Brogan representing SQUASH (Squatters Action for Secure Homes) who also appeared on the same 6 minute interview.
Catherine does not match most peoples stereotype of a squatter. I couldn’t see her during the interview and had no prior knowledge of who she was. I watched a recording of the interview later at a friends house and decided to Google her. She is on Facebook, Twitter, You Tube and even has her own blog. Clearly she is also an aspiring poet and to be perfectly honest was quite impressed. Nonetheless, from the interview it was also clear that even for Catherine, some of the lines were still a bit blurred in terms of todays new laws criminalising squatters.
So, let’s dispel a few urban myths and answer a few questions for landlords and squatters:-
I read a very interesting post written by David Lawrenson on the Inside Housing Blog which suggested that squatters are likely to use the following tactics to avoid prosecution. I thought long and hard about whether to re-publish his words here but I decided to do so on the basis that forewarned is forearmed and the matter should be discussed and ideas shared. David’s comments are in blue:-
“We think all that a squatter now has to do under the new law, is the following….
I once spent an evening with a landlord who was a previously a squatter in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s. We sat in a hotel bar following a networking meeting swapping stories until the early hours. I was fascinated by his stories of why he became a squatter. He too was a very intelligent man, articulate, well spoken, educated and very much into the psyche of people. He became a squatter to rebel and he beleives that several squatters are of this mindset. He knew he could go home to Mum and Dad at any time but it was the Punk Rock era and “Anarchy rules OK“.
A short term solution to the housing problem is for Councils to provide land with planning permission for temporary accommodation. The post war pre-fabs worked, these days pre-fabs are far better. People pay a small fortune to stay in a Winterised Caravan for a coastal holiday these days. I know a park operator who would invest up to £200 million in a Joint Venture with councils to provide such short term accommodation. All he needs is a field with planning permission on a 99 year peppercorn lease from the council and a promise that they will rent the units back from him for 5 years at the same rate as single persons Local Housing allowance rates. He will fund the entire infrastructure, install the units and even contract to cut the council into 25% of the rent after the initial five year term. It seems like a no brainier to me but so far he’s drawn a blank. Crazy really as he knows at least 50 other European park operators who are likely to want to do exactly the same deal.
And the government say they want to solve the housing crisis and work with the private sector – PAH!!!
Anyhow, I’ve gone on for long enough. This blog started out as a professional sharing of information and is turning into a political rent so I’ll stop there and hand over to you.
Mark Alexander can be contacted via:-
email: mark@property118.com
Twitter: @iAmAlandlord
Phone: 01603 428501
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Ben Reeve-Lewis
14:07 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
I suppose because I work for the council they arent so guarded with Data Protection. Councils have powers that cross over that stuff and because I am a prosecuting officer I am alllowed to demand information that other's cant get.
Whenever I work jointly with the police its fine, its what the little tinkers get up to when my back is turned that causes me grief haha.
Data Protection certainly creates lots of un-resolvable issues doesnt it? I can understand it in many cases but it can really be damaging to the relationship between landlords and councils.
The case law of Minter v. Mole Valley DC is a case in point. Minter sued the council for placing a nightmare tenant with him, knowing about his previous record. The council defended saying Data Protection meant they couldnt say anything. Minter won his case.
Mary Latham
14:34 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
Ben "better a volunteer than a conscript" I find that respecting the organisations needs to stay within Data Protection works well. I always begin by saying that I realise that they cannot give me information and that is why I am not going to ask for any.
Landlords suffer really badly when Housing Benefit departments use Data Protection to prevent the landlord tracking a claim and being able to help the tenant to provide the information that the council need. I tell landlords to tell the council that they know that they cannot confirm that the tenant is on benefits or that they are waiting for information from the tenant the to tell them. The full name of the tenant, the address of the property, the amount of the rent, the start date of the tenancy and ask them to send the landlord an Application Form for direct payment if the tenant is on benefits.
Landlords can't spend time and money fighting in Court we need our rent.
Ben Reeve-Lewis
15:17 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
I recognised back in the 1990s that landlord/tenant relationships would improve overnight if only HB would talk to landlords and yet I still havent seen it happen anywhere to any appreciable extent.
Our landlords have a code number where they can go online and see how much is about to go out to them and when but the problem it only gives a bulk figure, so if a landlord has 10 tenants they cant tell who might not be getting any money that month.
We are trying to encourage landlords in our borough to become accredited through LLAS (UKLAP Nationally) and one of the sweeteners we want is a dedicated open service from HB where they arent treated like paraiahs just for asking a question. Seems common sense but the twin problems are Data Protection and the fact that the needs of a housing directorate dont hold much sway over the concerns of the finance directorate.
Its like 2 chefs cooking the same meal where the saucierre makes the sauce regardless of what meat the other chef needs to serve, which reminds me of a joke from my childhood;
Man goers into a barbers and says "I want hair like Tony Curtis". The barber nods and promptly shaves all his hair off. The astonsihed man says "Tony Curtis doesnt have his hair like this!!!!" to which the barber replies "He would if he came in 'ere"
Mary Latham
16:56 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
Hahahahahahaha
Sandwell Council have a dedicated Housing Benefit Help line for MLAS accredited landlords Ben. The landlords get straight through without waiting in line but they are still stonewalled by Data Protection.
Ben Reeve-Lewis
18:40 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
Yeah. Know the problem but what if tenants signed a third party authorisation letter when signing up with a landlord? Authorising HB to talk to lanldords about their claim?
I do it with alll my mortgage repossession cases so the lender will discuss everytting with me. If banks can do it why not HB? It might encourage landlords to trust them more too
Mary Latham
18:45 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
Ben my experience is that when you get through to a dreaded call centre their "Script" defaults to "data protection, can't tell you". Most landlords get the authorisation when the AST is signed but getting the HB department to acknowledge that is walking up wet mirrors and even if they do they tell the landlord that they can only disclose so much - they dont understand that it is no disclosure or full disclosure!! We have managed to get the scripts rewritten in many authorities but its a long slow process and each one is a law unto themselves. You would think that it was their own money and money do not hide the fact that they don't like landlords.
Luckily most HB calls are taped "for training purposes" and we have hung several of them with their own rope - not what we want to be doing really.
Ben Reeve-Lewis
19:37 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
There's no magic bullet for us on the inside either Mary. Trying to get them to cooperate with a bigger picture than just processing numbers. I suppose its what happens to a person's point of focus when all day you just fit personal circumstances into procedures and regulations.
Unless you are lucky enough to get someone high up in the department who is on message it will never go smoothly unless government introduces an amendment to the HB regs, which they do quite regularly. Fat chance given the current thinking backing LHA and universal credit, people being in charge of their own finances
Richard Greenland Richard
20:59 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
Mark that is an excellent and well-balanced blog with some excellent responses from Ben and Mary. Very informative. What a refreshing change from the usual emotional knee-jerk reactions. It will be very interesting to see where the change in the law takes this difficult issue in future. Hm, I wonder who the ex-squatter landlord was 😉
Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
22:04 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
Hi Ben
I think this would make for an excellent blog, especially if written by you ...
"The case law of
Minter v. Mole Valley DC is a case in point. Minter sued the council for
placing a nightmare tenant with him, knowing about his previous record. The
council defended saying Data Protection meant they couldn't say anything. Minter
won his case."
Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
23:10 PM, 2nd September 2012, About 12 years ago
Hi Rich, I didn't want to reveal his identity without his permission but thanks for the compliment and feedback.