Running the Selective Licensing gauntlet?

Running the Selective Licensing gauntlet?

0:01 AM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago 16

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Hello, selective licensing is now in place in an area I have properties in. The online application process requires me to pay for the Part A fee (as they call it) of £295.00 by credit card at the end in order for the application to be sent to them.

By having no choice but to complete the application online and having to pay Part A in this way, then means a ‘pre-authorised payment’ Part B (£405.00) is then automatically triggered after the draft licence is issued.

1. I have no way of knowing when this £405 will be taken
2. I have not ‘authorised’ this pre-payment at all
3. Once the draft licence is issued there is a 20-day ‘representation period’. I have been told, this is there if the applicant (and all other interested parties who are listed on the application) should have concerns over any additional information provided or if they would like us to consider a different occupancy value, for example where one room may have been below minimum requirements for 2 people by a small margin – in which case we would review the measurements and consider amending to reflect this.

To my mind, the automatic grab of £405 at this point is not correct as the licence is still in draft form (and is not a ‘successful’ application) until this 20-day period had lapsed. If this is still being processed then money can only be taken for this purpose. As there may well be fundamental changes that have to be applied to the licence (eg occupancy moves from 4 to 3 or 2 people for example.) The licence is not in its finality until then.

As a result, I should:

1. Not be charged Part B until after day 20 (see below Provision of Services Regulations 2009 (4))
2. The automatic pre-payment authorisation trigger should be removed from the initial application system as this is in contradiction to case law (see below)
3. It should be able then to pay by BACS payment for Part B at the point when the licence has been properly detailed and both parties are in agreement of such (see below Provision of Services Regulations 2009 (3)

The council have replied and stated: “A draft copy is, in essence the council’s way of stating we are prepared to issue a full licence under these terms, and therefore we can and have every right to source a payment at point of issuing this copy”,

But I feel this is in total contradiction to existing Case law-

R (Hemming, t/a Simply Pleasure Ltd) v Westminster CC [2015] UKSC 25; [2015] AC 1600:

· Part 1 – a fee levied at the point of application, to cover the costs of the scheme’s ‘authorisation procedures and formalities’, i.e. the costs of processing the application; and

· Part 2 – if the application is successful, a further fee to cover the costs of running and enforcing the scheme.

The Provision of Services Regulations 2009 also states that

(4) Any charges provided for by a competent authority which applicants may incur under an authorisation scheme must be reasonable and proportionate to the cost of the procedures and formalities under the scheme and must not exceed the cost of those procedures and formalities.

The act also goes on to state that

(3) Authorisation procedures and formalities provided for by a competent authority under an authorisation scheme must be easily accessible.

Anyone come across this issue before?

The Council in question has clearly bought an off the shelf SL application package from a company that provided the same to another council as they followed up with “Just as many other local councils who adopted this licensing scheme before we have done – evidence is widely available on other councils websites should you wish to confirm this”

Thanks,

Reluctant Landlord


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Comments

Mick Roberts

9:47 AM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

You clearly have done your homework and know your rules and regs.
Welcome to Selective Licensing where a lot of Councils have copied Nottingham's daft confusing regs.

Please chase up the contradictions, as we get sick of being beat down by the stupidity of the Council and their army of Legal people behind them.

Never argue with a stupid person -They will beat u with experience.

Helen @ Like-Clockwork

9:48 AM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

Absolutely agree with the OP here!

I'm just about to raise this very issue with Birmingham City Council, as they're utilising this method for the selective licensing payments. Some second instalments have been deducted from our account, without reference to any specific application or property, and no confirmation of the licence itself received from the council. I'm struggling to see how this complies with current consumer laws.

John Dace

11:39 AM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

“I do not (wish to) use credit card, I enclose cheque for part A. Please invoice me at appropriate time for further payment of part B”
Should sort that problem.

Mr.A

11:41 AM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

Best of luck .
Your not dealing with normal rational people when the Clowncil is concerned.
It's Their way or no Licence.
Their Stupidity and arrogance usually has no bounds .
We are governed by the most Stupid of Society.

Helen @ Like-Clockwork

12:28 PM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by John Dace at 17/08/2023 - 11:39
Unfortunately, the Birmingham scheme doesn't give the applicant that option. It's a tick box, agreeing to deduction of a further payment...when they're ready, and without notification. If one doesn't tick the box, one can't submit the application.

Reluctant Landlord

13:34 PM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Helen @ Like-Clockwork at 17/08/2023 - 12:28
yes it is BCC that is where I have to apply to.

I'm going to ping off another email this time copying in the Head of the Council. I am not refusing to apply for the licence nor pay for it, but they must have another way of being able to do both independently. The application itself is just that and by default if it is not at that point a successful application so is no reason/justification for me having to agree to Part B being automatically taken AND with no notification when it is.

Reluctant Landlord

13:40 PM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Mick Roberts at 17/08/2023 - 09:47
is this the same in Notts then - apply and have to agree to pay by credit card and for Part B payment to be taken anytime?

Mick Roberts

17:12 PM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Mr.A at 17/08/2023 - 11:41
Ha ha yes

Mick Roberts

17:15 PM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Reluctant Landlord at 17/08/2023 - 13:40
Yes, same in Notts.
U wait till u read the conditions.
This was Nottingham conditions from 5 years ago-New scheme starting soon.

Most of u r very good. But are u perfect? Read Licensing conditions and tell yourself:
1. Could u comply with all them.
2. Would u take any tenant on that wasn't the most prim proper person ever?
3. If u was a landlord getting older, would u want to be dealing with that for EVERY house EVERY tenant?
4. Could u be doing with giving out 200 pages to each tenant each house.
5. Would u take a Benefit tenant on after being told u had to comply with them conditions?
Selective Licensing conditions Feb 2022
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sD_HRl57ANNw4PBAb-FGRU7h-0Qby9Vm5xLioH_nA7c/edit?usp=sharing

David Houghton

20:40 PM, 17th August 2023, About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Reluctant Landlord at 17/08/2023 - 13:34
Can you tell them you struggle with doing things online and ask for a paper copy?

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