Possession Claim Online experience?

by Readers Question

A week ago

Possession Claim Online experience?

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Possession Claim Online experience?

Hi all, looking for information and advice. I have a tenant that has not paid any rent from January 1st 2018. They have told me that they want a council house.

They were issued with a Notice 21 and Notice 8 in February, with the Notice 21 to vacate by April 10th 2018. We are now in the process of a PCOL / accelerated possession for rent arrears without claiming for the rent arrears, with a court date of 29th May 2018.

My question is do I have to take any documents to the courts before the court date as it was completed online?

What should I expect?

I have raised 4 CCJs for rent arrears (Jan/May) and told the tenant that I will raise another 6 months after they have left due to damage at the property.

As of today debt is £5135 and looking to add another £3445 if they vacate with out using the Bailiffs

Also is there anywhere to post their names so other Landlords do not have the same?

Many thanks

Keith

Editors Note for reference:

> https://www.gov.uk/possession-claim-online-recover-property

You can take court action to repossess a property if you’re owed money for rent or a mortgage, and the tenant or mortgage holder won’t pay.

You’ll have to pay £325 using a debit or credit card or Direct Debit.

You can use this service if:

  • you’re over 18
  • you own a property in England or Wales

You can use your local sheriff court if your property’s in Scotland. There’s a different process if you evict tenants in Northern Ireland.

You can only use this service if you’re owed money in rent or mortgage payments for a residential property.

Contact the Possession Claim Online help desk if you need help or advice.

Possession Claim Online help desk
ccbc@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
Telephone: 0300 123 1057
Monday to Friday, 8:30am to 5pm



Comments

Paul Kaye

A week ago

Tell the tenants you will give the council a very good reference (I think not !)

Chris Mccauley

A week ago

I had a similar experience awhile ago. The council are not inclined to rent council houses to applicants who have made themselves diliberataly homeless by not paying their rent. Perhaps advising your tenants of this might encourage them to pay up. Also you must provide all relevant documents if going to court,including valid deposit protection cert. The tenants may at least try to appeal for more Time,but if your paperwork is not in completely in order things can go very wrong. As far as you getting your monies owed,you may win your case, but actually getting your money is another story. I was lucky in that one of the tenants had a regular official job and I managed to eventually get paid via deduction from wages.

David Price

A week ago

To address your last point, tenants can and should be reported on Landlord Referencing, http://www.landlordreferencing.co.uk/
Do your tenants realise that they are unlikely to be offered a council property until the arrears are paid at their current address?
As to the court hearing, take the whole file, either paper or electronic, as you can never tell what the judge will ask for, and in particular have the rent statement and AST instantly available.

Steve Clark

A week ago

I had a similar situation last year and lost £ 3500 approx plus court fees. This ridiculous situation where everything is stacked against the landlord, and what with the changes Osborne made (meaning mortgages can no longer be offset against rent) have made me switch all the properties I own from buy to let to Holiday let.
I can't be the only person who has done this.
The Conservatives need to resolve these problems with Taxation and dodgy tenants getting away with it, otherwise we will all be pulling out of BTL.

Chris Daniel

A week ago

The most cost-effective Possession and Rent recovery assistance you'll find is - http://www.PossessionFriend.uk

Clint

A week ago

I would fully agree with David Price above regarding court documents. I have carried out many evictions over the years where I represented myself and have had no problems in evicting using section 8 & section 21 notices. I always do the section 8 notices online and fill in the appropriate forms. It has been all very easy until around the last three years where evictions have been more of a nightmare where, tenants who are on benefits are entitled to legal aid.

I think you will find in this respect an extremely unfair system operates where legal aid tenants are represented by both solicitors and barristers who I hate to say, I believe advise the tenants to lie. Further to this, the legal costs of the tenant’s barrister & solicitor get paid irrelevant of whether they win or lose the case. I cannot think of an unfairer system. The whole case is not about whether it is fair to evict the tenant or not but to find loop holes where the landlord who is already owed ridiculous amounts of rent; has to pay huge unsubstantial ludicrous legal fees and highly likely to be forced to lose more in unpaid rent.

My first nightmare case was a case where I served a section 8 notice to joint tenants to vacate where they were on universal credit and they owed me around £6000 as they could not pay the rent as they were from the EU and UC stated that they were not entitled to benefits. The tenants were what I would have said good tenants (until the day of they hearing) and in fact had wanted to leave as they were sympathetic to the fact that they were staying without paying rent and wanted to be evicted so that the council found them accommodation. Prior to explaining what had transpired during this case, I would like to highlight the fact that I had paid around £15,000 in refurbishing the flat.

At Croydon County Court & probably most of the county courts, there are solicitors that give free advice to tenants which is fine however, in my case at the hearing the solicitor represented my tenants and stated that the tenants did not receive the deposit documentation. In respect of the documentation for the section 8, all documents were found to be okay. The judge asked me if I had evidence that the documentation was served to which I said yes but did not have the evidence with me as it is not required for a section 8 notice eviction. The judge agreed with me however, the solicitor argued that if the tenant was not provided with the deposit documentation, the tenant could be awarded 3 times the deposit and costs for disrepair in which case the tenant would not be in arrears. The judge ordered that I sent evidence to the court and the other party & the hearing be adjourned.

I had provided the deposit certificate, the prescribed information and the “information for tenants” leaflet which was all signed by the tenant as received on a date well before the 30-day requirement.

On the day of the second hearing although, there was evidence that the deposit documentation was given to the tenant within the statutory time limits, the barrister representing stated that the prescribed information was not fulfilled in that I did not comply with Paragraph 2(1)(g)(vi) of the Housing (Tenancy Deposits) (Prescribed Information) Order 2007 and that there was disrepair which was not attended to. The tenants had not informed me of any disrepair prior to this.

The case ended up being a litigation case where costs have escalated to having cost me around £25,000 however, this I believe was due to a property solicitor I engaged being negligent in not including the deposit documentation in the bundle for the final hearing and I now have a case against the solicitor and his firm.

A very important point to make is that I protect my deposit with MyDeposits where you will find Paragraph 2(1)(g)(vi) stated where MyDeposits cannot help. I have clauses in my tenancy agreement stating when part of or all the deposit will be held. I did not state which clauses should be referred to and I believe that the barrister representing the tenants interpret this to be that the landlord should state which clauses in the tenancy agreement.

I believe at least 90% of landlords do not insert the clauses here as, I spoke to MyDeposits, NLA, other legal advisers & an agent who protects with MyDeposits (the agent manages about 450 properties) regarding having to include the clauses but they all felt it was not necessary. Legal advisors have however stated that it depends on the judge who interprets it at the time. I intended taking the case to the high court had I lost however, my solicitor messed up big time

More recently, I have been on another case (which is still ongoing) where the tenant (who is a nasty person) was more than two moths in arrears and a day before the hearing, I received an email from a solicitor from shelter stating that they were representing the tenant. At the hearing, which was about 20 mins, it was found that I did not complete the particulars of claim form correctly as we were joint landlords & I did not include the other landlord in the form and also the evidence of the email that I had sent (which was agreed to be received by the defendant) serving the section 8 notice or the hand delivered witnessed delivery of the section 8 was not sufficient as I did not fill the appropriate form of evidence in this respect. The judge said he would allow me to amend the documents however, I would have to pay the other party’s costs for the hearing which amounted to over £1600 for the attendance and there are the costs of the solicitor which are yet to be received. I have now appointed counsel (Cost me £450) where he is negotiating to end the case where the tenant leaves within a specified time, I wipe out the debt that the tenant owes and the tenant’s barrister & solicitors costs are also wiped out.

I did not anticipate writing so much however, it may be of assistance to you to know that I now take every possible documentation to court on the day of the hearing including deposit certificates, all correspondence (within reason), all receipts & acknowledges signed by tenants after each repair where they sign to say they are satisfied in order to quash disrepair claims.

I have sent the following to court and defendants for my second hearing of the section 8 case which may be of help to you or may seem over the top but I do feel is necessary:

• Certificate of Service - Section 8 – Email
• Certificate of Service - Section 8 - Post & Hand Delivery
• Grounds for possession - section 8
• Particulars of claim for possession
• Payment history (This is a copy of what is produced online)
• Proof of hand delivery - section 8
• Rent Schedule latest as on date of sending these documents to court
• Rent Schedule on date of hearing
• Rent Schedule sent with section 8 notice
• Section 8 Notice - Email sent to Tenant with section 8 notice
• Section 8 Notice - Form 3
• Tenancy Agreement

It would only be fair if legal aid which is tax payers money is provided and paid where the barrister and solicitor of the tenant is paid only if they win. The current system is not only ridiculous but it is hard to believe that such a system exists.

Steve Clark you are right, this all needs to be resolved or BTL will be dead soon

Cableman53

A week ago

Reply to the comment left by Clint at 13/06/2018 - 14:48
Thanks Clint , that has helped a lot

Jo Ramkissoon

A week ago

Hello

I have very recently used the PCOL service. I attended court (the tenant didn't) and took all the documents with me e.g. Section 21 (mine was hand-delivered and signed for by the tenant), AST, proof of deposit protection and an up to date rent statement. I handed them into the court clerk before the scheduled appointment and the papers were then handed to the judge. He used them to confirm everything was in order and then granted the eviction.
Hope this helps and good luck.
Jo

Clint

A week ago

Reply to the comment left by Jo Ramkissoon at 13/06/2018 - 19:52
I have attended many court hearings for possession over the last twenty years and I don't recall any where I was not given possession when the tenant did not turn up so I don't think there is much to worry about when the tenant does not turn up. Judges don't seem to worry much about the t's being crossed and the i's dotted when the tenants don't turn up


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