Petition to criminalise none payment of rent to landlords

"raging at each other"

never heard of ....divide and rule ??

it's a deliberate tactic. sadly it just shoots everyone in the foot. landlords, tenants and of course LHAs.

where is a Nickypick when you need one ?
it's ' them' not em !!

Interesting comments all.
My conclusion as has been mentioned, and I'm not defeatist; just realistic, is that there will be NO changes to ANY existing laws.
Providing it doesn't take up too much time then it might be worth a stab at getting things changed.
But when you think how long it took for the squatting law to be amended; what possible chances do you all think of our LL wish list of changes occurring!?.
I suggest unfortunately ZERO!!
Therefore with the looming additional problem of UC; LL have a pragmatic choice of refusing to retain or obtain any tenant or their guarantor who cannot qualify for a RGI check.
Of course,as has been advised by MA there other insurance solutions for 'difficult' tenant.
I believe every LL who cannot afford not to receive rent and cannot afford the long eviction processes must by sheer necessity have some sort of rent guarantee insurance to cover the risk of a tenant not paying the full contractual rent and then to be able to cover the rent for the eviction period, which can be lengthy.
I am into the 10th month of such a process.
Fortunately I have a RGI policy and have been paid so that I am NOT out of pocket.
I also have a good deposit to use for items stolen and damage I know has occurred at the property.
Now I haven't always been so astute and have suffered enormous losses as a consequence of NOT having any RGI policy

I just wanted to say thanks Mark for taking the initiative. Despite some negative comments in this thread I'm sure that there are a majority of landlords out there that would agree with you. If enough of them sign the petition, and it can be picked up by the newspapers, then maybe there could be some reaction from parliament.
I'm reminded of the old saying "how do you eat an elephant?" Answer "one bite at a time". Well if enough lanlords take the time to sign the petition (about 1 min to click and then fill in your name and address) maybe we can make a start on this elephant.

Whether we can expect to get what we want or not doesn't really matter. If the required number of signatures is reached the matter gets debated. Then slowly it may dawn on the Government that they have a problem and they had better start looking into it.

I may have worded this petition differently and asked for different things but the fact is that I did nothing and I therefore want to thank Mark for getting off his bottom and actually doing something to help to prevent the train crash that is coming. It would be nice if Marks proposals were to happen but even if they don't this will send a clear message to Government and if enough people sign it must be debated. I think I am right in saying we need 100K people to sign to make this happen? These people do not have to be landlords, the many good tenants, who need help via LHA, are suffering because of those who did not pay their rent. Tax payers are also funding actitivites that are increasing the workload of the NHS and the legal system and many of them have had to cut back on their own lifestyles while watching this.

It is always good to debate issues but its rather boring to watch squabbles - any minute I am expecting to read a post that ends in .................... and your mum..... which is usually the last remark before one boy hits another.

As a point of fact Housing Benefit was once paid in advance. I could name the person who agreed with Government that it could be paid in arrears but I won't because he is a very elderly gentleman now and I am sure that he does not need me to tell him that this was not a good move.

For those who doubt that changes can be made I give you my word that changes have been made over the last 40 years and most of them because one person took the time and trouble to do the research and put a reasoned proposal forward. Some of these changes happened before the legislation was written or while it was going through the process. Changes of this enormity will take a very long time but by 2014 /15 the train will crash and Government will be reaching out to the PRS.

We just need a brave and far-sighted politician to take the lead on this. There you go a nice cue for a mega moan!!

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I agree with Mark on 2) criminalise the misuse of misappropriation of housing benefits, 3) improve possession laws but fail to see how any Govt will think that it won't be a Poll_tax-Esque piece of legislation to criminalise non payment of rent.

For non-payment of a hotel room, non payment for petrol, burglary and so on the offence is pre-meditated. Police have five points to prove appropriation of property belonging to another with intention to permanently deprive. Non payment of rent will usually fail the test that it was intentional (hence making it civil) and may fail the permanent deprivation test as the person may well have not paid because their circumstances changed and they may well intend to pay when they can.

We have to look at intent and without intent we could also argue that bouncing a cheque should be criminalised and non-payment of credit cards should be criminalised etc etc. This would put many decent people who hit a sticky patch in their lives in a lot of trouble.

I have been a LL for more than 22 years and have been stitched up time and time again to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds. What annoys me is the eviction process being so unwieldy and those tenants who do it to me deliberately from the off : i.e.. they pay their incoming rent then just sit tight.

I don't bother with RGI as I have a large enough estate to consider the losses bad tenants cause me are probably less than I would pay in referencing and RGI (plus my time in doing the paperwork). I do take risks on some tenants based on my gut feeling and most of the time I have made some very good decision taking on tenants that no-one else would have. Luckily I can afford over a large and diverse portfolio to take this sort of gamble on the basis that if I do it a lot I will more win than lose.

"how do you eat an elephant?" Answer "one bite at a time".

EXACTLY. so well put, Pete.

Yep and you are as you indicated just the sort of LL that can get away without RGI.
The vast majority of LL though are NOT in your fortunate position.
Therefore as long as the eviction process takes so long those LL must have some sort of rent protection facility or risk losing ALL.
This eviction risk is NEVER pointed out to prospective LL at all these silly property seminars, with these propert gurus!.
It is glossed over as being of no real consequence when in fact it is the MOST important part of the investment process.
After all if you don't have rent coming in from wherever; your business model is destroyed along with you!!

HI Alex,
"For non-payment of a hotel room, non payment for petrol"

Could also be considered as ' will pay you when I can '
but it is not.

tenants that don't pay have no intention to pay. as there is a fall-back system known as benefits. if this system fails the tenant then who is to blame.
this could force LHA to act faster when it comes to paying rents which would also have to be directed directly to the LL. or the LL files for eviction and /or criminal intent to deprive due rents.

now can you see how this act could unfold so many bad LHA practices.

because in some cases it is the failings of the councils LHA that are causing the problems.
then they want to blame us for it !!!

and as for the odd rouge tenant, working but not paying, he/she will soon realise not to play that game any more.

and the benefit to tenants is....stable rents.
afterall, how do you recover your loses ? by slowly charging a little extra rent on all your other tenants. and that's why good tenants will see reason to approve this idea.

not what you sell - it's how you sell it.