If I put my houses in my tenants name would I be exempt from onerous retrospective legislation?

If I put my houses in my tenants name would I be exempt from onerous retrospective legislation?

11:27 AM, 1st December 2021, About A year ago 37

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Yes, I know this may be the most ridiculous question. But I ain’t Einstein even though I have 27,000 times more common sense than the Govt and Nottingham City Council.

You only know the answer if someone tells you. So come on Ian Narbeth, Chris Possession Friend and all you other Legal experts.

I’m talking could we now tell Licensing, Sorry Licensing Bafoons, tenant part-owns, she don’t want Licensing and your extortionate fee and regs and rules telling her she can’t have open-plan kitchen when her Mum does, but you discriminate against tenants like they are little children being told they must have this and that.

Sorry EPC, she don’t want any more work being done.

I’m only suggesting a 5% stake which would be 7kish, which I don’t mind anyway as I’m gonna give them that should they ever wish or be in a position to be able to buy from me.

I know the tenants could have me over a barrel, saying We’re selling this now, Mick. Well, that suits me fine because I want to sell a lot of them anyway. And the 7k would only be the same as above.

Would a pitfall be they could say No Mick, we ain’t ever agree to sell to anyone? And they’d never sign?

Most of mine are on Benefits, would Universal Credit then say Sorry not paying your rent, you part own the house.

I’m gonna guess some of you are gonna shoot me down in 9 seconds saying Don’t be ridiculous Mick, this and that will happen. And Licensing will still apply.

Thanks in anticipation of quelling my dreams.

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15:54 PM, 2nd December 2021, About A year ago

Mick, have a look at how 'rent to buy' works. A landlord in my hometown is avoiding licensing fees by doing this. The Council agreed that he is exempt from the licensing fee. I did not get the details of how it works from him, as I sold all mine in the licensing area.

Mick Roberts

16:32 PM, 2nd December 2021, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by J CHAPMAN at 02/12/2021 - 15:54
Aaah we getting there. Thanks I'll look tomorrow when back in office. I suspect maybe different as my tenants can't afford to buy mine.
Be good though if works.

Mick Roberts

16:33 PM, 2nd December 2021, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Paul M at 02/12/2021 - 12:25
Thanks Paul M,

I must have missed your comment earlier as I was posting mine, yours wasn't there. Someone else just mentioned this.
Have u any pointers?


23:33 PM, 2nd December 2021, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Mick Roberts at 02/12/2021 - 16:32
My fellow landlords tenants can't afford to buy either, they are mostly on benefits. Sorry I can't give you more details, I thought it was a brilliant strategy and would have looked at it further if I hadn't been planning to get rid of mine. He said the SL Officer was seething when they agreed he could not be forced to pay for the license, also said they were now responsible for their own repairs. Got to be worth a look.

Jessie Jones

9:24 AM, 4th December 2021, About A year ago

Mick, the Selective Licensing scheme only lasts for 5 years, and then the Council have to re-apply to central government if they want to extend the scheme. I think that this permission has been rejected in some areas as the Councils hadn't demonstrated that the schemes had delivered the benefits they are supposed to, such as a reduction in antisocial behaviour in the relevant areas.
I think that it would be more effective to try and oppose the renewal of the licensing scheme, than to try and figure out a way to avoid it.

Mick Roberts

11:50 AM, 4th December 2021, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Jessie Jones at 04/12/2021 - 09:24
Yes Jessie,

The Council have employed someone specifically just for the renewal which they are apparently starting Oct 2022.
At that time, we have to get all our tenants writing in to the Secretary of State saying they don't want Licensing as it's making rents expensive & reducing supply, so much so that Benefit tenants can't move any more.

Yes, some areas have been rejected, Liverpool for one, let's hope.

We all try to oppose, but as u know, Landlord always wrong, Govt & Council right.

Kate Mellor

18:01 PM, 4th December 2021, About A year ago

Okay, this is just my immediate off the cuff thoughts.

I suspect you would probably still be classed as a landlord, because even if you gifted the tenant a 5% share of the property you would be renting them the 95% share that you still owned, (I think!?).

You would have the legal cost of registering the tenants in common with HMLR which could land you with tax due on the value of the gift plus legal fees. If you had a mortgage you would have a restriction on disposal registered on the property which would kybosh the idea. (I think you said you didn't have a mortgage?)

You'd also have legal fees for a contractual agreement between you on how things would be agreed in terms of the possible future sale of the property or any other things such as fees, maintenance etc.

If for some reason the tenant left the property you may lose touch with them and not be in a position to sign off on anything without them?

If you registered the shares as tenants in common with a declared split, the tenant could potentially die and you'd end up with an unknown part owner, or if no will a part share going to the government, or being held in limbo because no relative could be found.

If you registered as joint tenants whereby the same scenario would lead to you inheriting the deceased tenant's share, you could have the scenario where you pass away first and your share goes directly to your tenant. You may not mind this if you have no other family you wish to leave your estate to, but if you do then this isn't desirable.

Just a few random thoughts...

Mick Roberts

12:28 PM, 5th December 2021, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Kate Mellor at 04/12/2021 - 18:01
Thanks Kate,

Din't think of that -Tax due on the gift. Great thinking.

Yes most have no mortgages.

Ooh u putting lots of spanners in the works.

No, I can't have them having the whole lot if I pass away.


14:09 PM, 5th December 2021, About A year ago

Hello Mick
I am new to the forum.
I have the feeling you are an "old timer" and throw a googly from time to time to everybody's enjoyment.
Did you notice that the solicitors did not reply?
You have raised a series of fundamental questions, which would require a number of lectures.
Overthrow the system - via an avoidance scheme:
The legal system will not permit it. Judges will find against you. They have an armoury.
If there is a case, where the Judges are sympathetic, they may find in your favour "on the special facts of the case." It will NOT have a wider import or significance.
[Example: it is settled law a commercial lease of a shop with living accommodation on top - subject to the LTA 1954 - is NOT subject to leasehold enfranchisement. The lessee cannot buy the freehold reversion on the cheap. And yet when the House of Lords decided in favour of Mr Tandon - vide Tandon v Spurgeon's Trustees - there was an uproar, but it settled down quickly : special facts (my foot).]
There are well-settled principles of English land law:
1. A freeholder may not grant a Lease to himself.
2. The Lesser interest merges in the greater interest.
Your scheme cannot succeed ab initio.
There was a suggestion that the Landlord will pass his liability for repairs to the Tenant by putting this in the Tenancy Agreement (signed by the Tenant).
No Landlord may override the specific provisions of s.11 LTA 1985.
A Landlord may have a small victory in clarifying the meaning, where such meaning is not settled law.

Bristol Landlord

1:09 AM, 6th December 2021, About A year ago

Hi Mick
I’ve no idea if this could work but there seem to be several housing associations in your town,
Could you approach them with a view to selling to them with a tenant in place?
It doesn’t have to be all your properties at once to one HA but maybe a few properties each over time to a different HA.
If your tenants are low income and the HA have the funds and they are looking to buy then perhaps there could be a deal?
Otherwise is it possible to start your own Housing Association with your own properties.
If you can get any Govt or, heaven forbid, any LA funding then perhaps your HA, which you run, can purchase your properties from you.
If you hire a manager to run it then perhaps over time you can sell up to your HA and manage to retire.
No idea if this can be done but perhaps it’s something to look into?
Cheers, BL.

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