Damage to tenant’s possessions

Damage to tenant’s possessions

10:50 AM, 3rd November 2014, About 10 years ago 29

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Our tenant has informed us today that her £500 pram has been destroyed beyond repair due to a collapsed kitchen ceiling and she wants to claim the full amount from us. In a nutshell, I would like to know if we are liable please. Any advice gratefully received. Damage to tenant's possessions

To give a bit of background, 2 weeks ago on Sunday afternoon, she said there was water dripping through the kitchen ceiling and demanded an emergency plumber on the spot. She said it had being doing it since Saturday but that she couldn’t get through to us to report the problem. Not true, the phone was with us constantly, we received at least 5 calls, none from her. We declined this request and said we would have a plumber with her on Monday morning which we did. Our usual plumber was too busy to go but we used our regular handyperson who builds extensions etc and does small plumbing jobs for us. He checked the sink, under the bath (removed the panel etc) and whilst he found the floor and vinyl behind the sink was wet could find no obvious cause. He felt that the children may have overfilled the sink and it had dropped through. There was also no water dripping in the kitchen.

We heard no more until last Sunday. Same scenario, water p**sing through the ceiling etc etc, again demanding an emergency plumber. Again we declined and asked the tenant to turn the water off and we would have someone there first thing Monday morning. This was met with verbal abuse, being sworn at and the phone being put down on us. We were then called back to be told she was going to get her own emergency plumber and deduct it from the rent. We reiterated that this was not acceptable. Phone put down again… (Strange how this is always Sundays!) this time on Monday, we had our regular plumber who identified the fault as the sealant around the bath not doing its job. He jacked the bath up as much as possible but didn’t have time to rectify the fault. He said it needed to dry out and a frame made for the bath, new silicone etc. he returned to the property on Friday to complete the work. We were called again Saturday to be told it was still leaking and water was still dripping through the ceiling. The plumber agreed to go back again this morning. Apparently a push-fit joint was weeping which he has replaced.
We then received another call this morning, stating that after the plumber went, the ceiling fell in. He had already informed me on Friday (as well as the tenant) that it was vulnerable and I had given him the go ahead to get his plasterer friend to take the ceiling down, replace, redecorate etc. he had informed the tenant that this will be happening on Tuesday. So, all of a sudden, after he left , it caved in its her v expensive pram under it….. Why would you out a pram there knowing it was dodgy is my first thought? The plumber told me this morning that it looks as if they may have been pulling on the ceiling as it was much lower than Friday and that there was no water going down the sides of the bath when he left. It had been filled and blasted with water as a test. Of course proving that would be difficult,nay impossible no doubt.

Of course this could all tie in with her telling me on Friday, (I challenged her as my plumber told me she had found another property) that she is looking for somewhere else as the property is not fit to live in and that we don’t do repairs… She has lived there only 3 months. In that time, there have been new carpets throughout, repairs to window catches, replacement of a cracked bath panel, the roof ridge tiles repointed and £100 given to them for work they have done on the garden. Apparently we are very negligent as she reported this 19 days ago and only now are we doing something about it. The house is now suffering from mould on the upstairs walls, again in 4 years of owning the property, it was never a problem and this has been blamed on the leaking roofs etc. the roofer tells me there was no water ingress at all. Other requests we have had are to sort out the aerial, it was working fine on arrival but now isn’t for some reason and the kitchen cupboard handles which are rusting and new window locks for the upstairs windows as her 2 year old is likely to climb out?! Everything is usually accompanied by ‘this is not healthy for my children’

Quite happy for her to go away but not to then try and take us for a new pram, return of bond etc.
as I said at the start, any thoughts, suggestions gratefully received.

Apologies for the war and peace, it’s just that the devil is usually in the detail!

Many thanks

Julianne

 


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Comments

Joe Bloggs

23:58 PM, 4th November 2014, About 10 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "All BankersAreBarstewards Smith" at "04/11/2014 - 19:17":

that is hardly the actions of a good landlord.

All BankersAreBarstewards Smith

8:04 AM, 5th November 2014, About 10 years ago

I know - it' so unlike me to suggest that... but just sometimes you have to fight fire with fire....

Romain Garcin

8:16 AM, 5th November 2014, About 10 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "All BankersAreBarstewards Smith" at "04/11/2014 - 23:19":

£500 is still £500 especially when it is an open and shut case in court: They'd only need to show the cheque.

My advice is not to try what you suggest.

Colin Dartnell

8:16 AM, 5th November 2014, About 10 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "All BankersAreBarstewards Smith" at "04/11/2014 - 19:17":

Hmm not sure that's a good idea!

All BankersAreBarstewards Smith

8:20 AM, 5th November 2014, About 10 years ago

the other strategy is to not answer her phone calls and issue a Section 21 immediately..... you will then feel in control

Joe Bloggs

9:47 AM, 5th November 2014, About 10 years ago

im surprised that no one has seemingly suggested going down and speaking to the tenant face to face and seeing the pram etc. it may be your lack of direct involvement is the inflaming the tenants anger.

Dr Rosalind Beck

9:38 AM, 8th November 2014, About 10 years ago

Hi Jools.
I thought the initial advice from Mark and the advice from George was excellent. Other points I would make is that I would not give Environmental Health a thought. We have been reported by this kind of tenant many times and as long as you are trying your best to remedy a problem, I've found that they're not interested in complaints from tenants like these. They seem to get serious if, for example, there's no heating for two months during a freezing winter (which of course has never happened in any of our houses). Indeed, we've had several ceilings fall down and the tenants have been great about it. As you say, it is this person's attitude that is causing you the most distress.
She sounds like a very difficult, obnoxious person - and your main aim should be to get her out. We have had tenants like this cost us thousands unfortunately by the time we get them out. I liked the 'carrot' approach of getting her to think she might get the money for the pram from the insurance, so I'd emphasise that.
Regarding the comments by people who say they would immediately call out plumbers on Sundays to a tenant like this who is extremely demanding... well, I would have done exactly the same as you - used my own people at their earliest convenience, because as you say, water was not flooding through the ceiling. I suspect that the water came through when the child was having a bath and it could be a particularly lively child, splashing a lot and causing the water to come through the seal...
Anyway, I come finally to my main point. This is to work out how to deal with this person and others like her who will come your way in life, both as a landlord and as a human being. It's not easy, but I think coping strategies are very important and can include going for a walk to get some fresh air, see nature and realise that this person is not your lord and master, but someone whose name you will not even remember in a few years' time.
I also have a list called 'lessons from life' next to my PC which includes the following:
'Look at every so-called disaster and ask the question: "In five years time, will this matter?"
'You don't have to win every argument; you can agree to disagree.'
'Take a deep breath. It calms the mind.'
'What other people think of you is none of your business.'
'When in doubt, just take the next step.'
'Don't take yourself too seriously. No-one else does.'

Not sure if any of these have resonance, but these sorts of thoughts can sometimes calm me down a bit, when I've allowed some unreasonable and unbalanced 'boundary-crasher' to ruin my day.
I hope you can take a break from this woman and thinking about her and do something nice for yourself today!
All the best with it. It'll be sorted soon.

All BankersAreBarstewards Smith

10:24 AM, 8th November 2014, About 10 years ago

A mate of mine had a situation a bit like this and I suggested that I went in and negotiated the tenants departure. they were happier to talk to someone else who did not have an emotional involvement in the tenancy and , it let them sound off about their rubbish landlord, and they then moved out in 10 days with a small cash payment for their removal costs. win-win

John walker

20:28 PM, 17th November 2014, About 10 years ago

Hi Julianne,
I have a clause in all tenancy agreements, I insure the property, tenants insure their belongings. No problems to date, though no problems with collapsed ceilings either,

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