Summer Budget 2015 – Landlords Reactions

Summer Budget 2015 – Landlords Reactions

14:00 PM, 8th July 2015, About 9 years ago 9619

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Budget 2015 - Landlords Reactions

The concern is;

Budget proposals to “restrict finance cost relief to individual landlords”Summer Budget 2015 - Landlords Reactions

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BTL INVESTOR SCOTLAND

21:45 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Here is an interesting post from Lisa Orme on another property forum. It sets out quite nicely some of the challenges.

'As promised I shall be penning a report and some comparisons this week with regards to the recently announced tax changes.

I have unsurprisingly been inundated with enquiries and requests from new and existing clients this last few weeks with regards to this and in particular buying via a Ltd Co.

Three discussions I had this week beautifully reflected my general feelings on the matter and that is that assessment of your own circumstances and a careful and thorough costing is absolutely essential before jumping in head first especially with regards to going the Ltd Co route.

Case One

Applicant has already purchased a HMO in their own name and is remortgaging following a comprehensive refurb. They decided they'd rather go the Ltd Co route.
Now ordinarily given a HMO is likely to be mortgaged with a commercial lender anyway then a Ltd Co will make little difference but as this was already owned by the individual that's a different matter.

Firstly you cannot just 'transfer' a property into the company as I've already seen people suggest! This is a SALE and a PURCHASE. As such the investor will be facing capital gains tax on the sale and stamp duty on the purchase.
But worse is yet to come. The lender will insist upon a full CASH deposit being put in by the company. So effectively the investor will have to put in the deposit TWICE.

Unsurprisingly they changed their mind!

While I'm here the EXACT same thing applies if using a trust; a trust is a separate entity and while it's in essence a paper exercise to move the equity and rent into the trust there is still a sale/purchase of equity and while you may get around the 'lender issue' you don't get around CGT and stamp duty.

Case Two

Applicant is on a significant PAYE income in the higher tax bracket. They have 8 B2Ls with several of them unencumbered. They easily qualify for the most attractive B2L mortgages and want 5 year fixed rates.

They will face an increase of £2,000 pa in taxes when the full relief is withdrawn. (£250 pa per property.)

However when comparing the costs of the best value 5 year fixed Ltd Co mortgage for their latest purchase they will be looking at an increased cost of £2,000 pa in interest - that's for ONE property!

In addition the increased arrangement fees, legal costs and val fees added a further initial cost of around £4,000. Resulting in an average cost increase of £2,800 per year for 5 years. Again this is just one property.

Unsurprisingly they changed their mind!

Case Three

Semi-retired landlord with substantial portfolio of 40 properties and an income of £30k pa - like many landlords I know keeping their income in the lower tax bracket. This group is the one most likely to be hit by the changes.

They already have a number in a Ltd Co so are looking to refinance a number of the B2L ones they have into the company too.

A major consideration for this client is IHT planning so a Ltd Co should be considered for a number of reasons. However age is a major consideration here with many commercial lenders having lower age requirements than B2L lenders. Additionally much shorter terms are often offered if interest only is preferred or required and that can cause real issues further down the line when the term finishes and the client is then even older.

They were happy to pay the CGT and stamp duty and even put in deposits and so undaunted the client wanted to understand exactly how much this tax change would cost them fearing they may be forced to sell up.

It would be £250 per property per year!

Now that took him quite by surprise! If a landlord can't stomach £250 per year per property that's very worrying indeed!

We both agreed a strategy of £10 pcm rent increase for the next 3 years would be an acceptable move that would be palatable to most tenants and adequately cover the tax increase.

They haven't changed their mind as yet BUT only because of IHT planning not because of the tax changes. And they certainly won't be selling up!

I hope that these three case studies (and I have many more) give a bit of insight into this for investors and prompt them into doing some sums for themselves. More importantly I hope it stops the feeling of panic I'm seeing amongst some landlords and communities.

Now don't get me wrong - I am ABSOLUTELY 100% against this tax change and will fight it tooth and nail. It is a stealth tax, unfair, unjust, unprecedented and retrospective and I'm friggin livid about it!

From the above we can see rents WILL rise; that is a guarantee so tenants should be as angry about this as landlords.

But I also don't want anyone making rash decisions they may well regret later.
As a broker my fees and commissions are higher for commercial lending (as it is for most other brokers!) so I have no financial incentive to offer this advice by any means and hopefully it will be seen with the impartiality that is intended.'

Connie Cheuk

21:47 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ros ." at "31/07/2015 - 21:36":

I intend to follow up with a few phone calls tomorrow - nudge / push / shove them in the right direction...

Thanks for words of encouragement...almost there with two mass emails...

Another thought - even easier - to get hold of Head office and get them to mass email! I'm sure they have a group email already sorted! 🙂

Connie Cheuk

21:49 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Trendo " at "31/07/2015 - 21:03":

Yes, members not following this thread may not realise the petition is up....though I think Mark sent an email round...

Appalled Landlord

22:22 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Landing Lord" at "31/07/2015 - 21:43":

Hi L L

There were two comments under this article. I have just posted the third:

"It is ridiculous of Kate Palmer to bring BTL into this article. If BTL landlords make a loss we cannot claim tax relief for it against our income. It can only be set off against future rental profits.

Investment in films was marketed as a tax avoidance scheme, so that investors could reduce their income tax.

BTL is not a tax avoidance scheme, it is a business providing an essential service."

On reflection, I should have said "disgraceful".

Dr Rosalind Beck

22:28 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "BTL INVESTOR SCOTLAND" at "31/07/2015 - 21:45":

Hi BTL.
Looking at example 3, there is no mention of the interest rises which are expected. That's what would sting me:
1. being taxed on the imaginary income.
2. interest rises meaning my imaginary income climbs and I'm taxed more.

It would be different if the Government said we could only put 20% of our finance costs in, and still count them as costs and not as 'income.' It would still be grossly unfair, but it wouldn't be as serious. Does that make sense or am I having a thick moment? (I do find economics challenging)

Appalled Landlord

22:33 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Connie Cheuk" at "31/07/2015 - 21:47":

Hi Connie

You are doing a fantastic job. Now that you have found the shortcut, there is another widespread franchise, from Aberdeen to Wrexham via Lisburn: Belvoir!............

BTL INVESTOR SCOTLAND

22:35 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Some headlines for attracting attention on social media:

Homeless numbers set to rise as landlords prepare to sell up – stop it now by signing petition
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104880

Home prices set to fall as landlords prepare to sell up – prevent it by signing petition
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104880

Appalled Landlord

22:42 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ros ." at "31/07/2015 - 22:28":

Hi Ros

You are also doing a fantastic job. But point 2 is not right.

An increase in the rate of interest will not increase your tax, it will reduce it. The amount of profit that HMRC will deem you to have made remains unchanged, because interest will not be part of that calculation. Therefore an increase in finance costs will not put you in a higher tax band.

But if your interest goes up, the 20% relief goes up in line with it (subject to restrictions, see below). The deemed profit is unchanged, the tax calculated on it is unchanged, but the relief is higher. So the amount of tax that you pay would be lower.

Of course, your real profit will also be lower.

Note that the relief is given to the lower of a) finance costs, b) deemed rental profit, and c) total gross income minus the personal allowance. These factors are all taken into account in the spreadsheet.

If you want to see what the effect of a change to interest would be, just put it in its red box. The spreadsheet will give you the answer. You can do the same for changes to rent or other income.

Connie Cheuk

22:43 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "BTL INVESTOR SCOTLAND" at "31/07/2015 - 22:35":

Fantastic! 🙂

I checked my facebook page earlier and discovered total indifference; the landlord aspect doesn't bother them.

House prices set to fall will be met with glee by many, though... 🙁

I'll try the homeless angle...with landlords forced to raise rents...

Appalled Landlord

22:52 PM, 31st July 2015, About 9 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ros ." at "31/07/2015 - 22:28":

Hi Ros

Please don’t suggest this to our George!

If we could only deduct 20% of our finance costs from rent in calculating our rental profit, it would mean that we would pay tax on 80% of our finance costs at anything up to 45% (which would be 36% of the finance costs). That would be worse than the proposal to tax them at anything up to 25%.

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