Watch out how you describe threatening tenants to the police

by Readers Question

9:27 AM, 1st November 2019
About 9 months ago

Watch out how you describe threatening tenants to the police

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Watch out how you describe threatening tenants to the police

I had cause to report the threatening behaviour of a male tenant to the Police. The tenant was British White in terms of appearance. I did not mention this and reported nothing about either his nationality or his appearance.

I then hear back from Kent Police that there were “racial undertones” in my reporting this tenant! That was very odd I thought.

If it had been an East European then I would have included in my description the Country on his Passport which is taken as part of the tenant verification. However, I thought the Default Position would be he was British White. So I reported nothing.

I heard back as follows:-

‘It has also been identified there are racial undertones..’.

“This was wholly erroneous and I apologise unreservedly on behalf of Kent Police”.

 “The officer was remorseful and gave his apologies likewise for this supposition.”

 “He can only account for this in that he may have read it or heard it elsewhere, but there is nothing in this investigation to indicate anything of the sort”

 Hence if your readers report anything to the Police then perhaps it is better to spell it out and give the nationality in the report even if they are from the UK.

Fergus Wilson



Comments

Neil Patterson

9:30 AM, 1st November 2019
About 9 months ago

It is possible this was a subliminal expectation from how you are reported by the press.

Dr Rosalind Beck

10:53 AM, 1st November 2019
About 9 months ago

A landlord I know was recently threatened by a trans person - transitioning from female to male. He shouted, hit the landlord and tried to push the landlord out of the house. A report was made to the police but God knows how they would view it if for example the landlord uses the original name of, let's say, Susan, instead of the new name of eg James. As there may be a court case with the tenant concerned not paying the rent (obviously that's why they hit out), the papers will be in the person's original name as that is what is on the TA. The problem when labels such as 'racist' 'homophobic' etc are thrown about, is that lots of people like to get on the PC bandwagon and make and compound completely groundless accusations of discrimination.

Incidentally, it appears that this is not sufficient grounds for regaining possession as the ground under Section 8 appears to be about bad behaviour towards other tenants and neighbours. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that aggressive behaviour towards landlords isn't covered... As it is, the landlord will be attempting to regain possession for non-payment of rent. A Section 21 is not possible as it is early in the tenancy and a 12 month contract has been signed.

Laura Delow

10:59 AM, 1st November 2019
About 9 months ago

This goes to prove that sadly quite a few people of different sex, age, colour or creed have a big chip on the shoulder & automatically assume everything that comes out of your mouth is an insult. Life is so PC nowadays that one dare not say a word in case of being taken the wrong way. Even responding to a direct verbal insult only fuels the ignoramuses in society. I find it is best to smile, walk away & let them stew in their own venom. I had more than my fair share of insults over the years being a young Jewish female who worked in a man's world from the early 1970's. My best ammunition was to do well despite their attempts to derail me.

Chris @ Possession Friend

23:52 PM, 1st November 2019
About 9 months ago

Good god, I thought it was only the media that 'had it in' for Fergus, but the Police seem to be joining in as well !

Michael Barnes

16:27 PM, 2nd November 2019
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Dr Rosalind Beck at 01/11/2019 - 10:53
To which S8 ground are you referring?

I would go for G12 as I have a cluse that the T will not abuse LL, LL's family or people acting for LL.

Chris @ Possession Friend

19:01 PM, 2nd November 2019
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Michael Barnes at 02/11/2019 - 16:27
Ground 12, - beach of Tenancy agreement, - covers a multitude of things BUT, is ( as I'm sure your well aware Michael ) a Discretionary ground.
Given the courts reluctance to evict on Mandatory, let alone Discretionary grounds, I don't see a G12 getting anything more than a Suspended Possession order ( that's £355 and several months for what is effectively a telling off from the judge !
If anyone has heard of an example - case where Outright Possession was awarded on a Discretionary ground, please post some ( non-identifying ) details.

Michael Barnes

21:37 PM, 2nd November 2019
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Chris Daniel at 02/11/2019 - 19:01
Yes, but Ros indicated a S8 ground and I can see no mandatory ground (or discretionary ground for that matter) that matches her conditions.

Chris @ Possession Friend

21:57 PM, 2nd November 2019
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Michael Barnes at 02/11/2019 - 21:37
Michael, it was you that suggested Ground 12 ? in your post above
" I would go for G12 as I have a clause that the T will not abuse LL, LL's family or people acting for LL. "

Indeed, I agree Ground 12 covers the circumstances, ( as it does pretty much ANY breach of a Tenancy agreement,) but my point was that a Discretionary ground is as much use as a 'chocolate tea-pot ' I'm sure you'd agree ?

Michael Barnes

0:02 AM, 3rd November 2019
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Chris Daniel at 02/11/2019 - 21:57
And my point was that Ros mentioned an unspecified ground and I was trying to determine which ground she meant.
There appears to be no mandatory ground that matched her comment, so I presumed a discretionary ground, and of the discretionary grounds it is 12 that I would have gone for.

Monty Bodkin

10:18 AM, 3rd November 2019
About 9 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Chris Daniel at 02/11/2019 - 19:01
Here you are Chris, a possession under ground 14 discretionary 'nuisance' ground.

https://cornerstonebarristers.com/cmsAdmin/uploads/paragon-asra-housing-ltd-v-neville-(approved).pdf

Gawd help a private landlord (and the neighbours) having to go through all that if section 21 is scrapped.

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