Very weird legal letter about council tax arrears?

by Readers Question

10:36 AM, 30th July 2020
About 2 months ago

Very weird legal letter about council tax arrears?

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Very weird legal letter about council tax arrears?

Hello, I received a very weird legal letter about arrears in council tax. This derives from a period in which an outgoing tenant did not pay council tax (or rent).

The situation is this. June 2019 no rent received. I chase, but tenants avoid me. The tenant abandons property with lots of mess. Their month runs till 29 June and I get keys back around 27 June, but did not get notice. It is agreed that I keep the deposit as the last month’s rent.

New tenant get keys on 13 July and contract begins 18 July (they get it early).

Question is: Obviously the outgoing tenant is responsible for non-paid council tax till 29 June. They didn’t give notice, but just abandoned the property. Am I, therefore, responsible for the council tax for the empty period?

Finally, when is the new tenant responsible from: the day they took over or the day the formal contract began?

Many thanks

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Chris @ Possession Friend

23:29 PM, 2nd August 2020
About 2 months ago

A Pro-active Landlord body would collate a list of Councils with Negative, Anti-Landlord policies and publish them far and wide.
Also if there was less apathy amongst Landlords as a whole, the PRS could make life very difficult for the worse Councils - Local Authorities.
Pity Landlords don't have such support. We need a pro-active mass Landlords Union.who will take politicians 'head-on' not cosy up to them.

Gunga Din

13:49 PM, 3rd August 2020
About 2 months ago

Posts above have stated, in connection with the Leeds vs. Broadly case, that a) Leeds lost, and b) Leeds won.

Which is the case that its the precedent for the Contractual Periodic favouring the LL?

Chris @ Possession Friend

16:21 PM, 3rd August 2020
About 2 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Gunga Din at 03/08/2020 - 13:49
It may have been the way I put it on reflection that caused confusion, short version is Broadley was Landlord who's tenancies ran on as Contractual Periodic. ( bit of a longer explanation of this in the case summary, but nevertheless )
Leeds Council who took case all the way to Supreme court, losing each time ( at tax-payers expense ) that argued Contractual Tenancy didn't absolve landlord of responsibility to pay Council tax after tenant had left.
Court held it did until tenancy had been formally ended ( even after tenant may have moved out. )
Easy to look up the Broadley case on Google though.

Gunga Din

18:07 PM, 3rd August 2020
About 2 months ago

Thanks for the clarification Chris, in the meantime I did find it and should have done before. It has helped compose my letter to H'pool Council.

And now we wait......

allen lagnado

11:39 AM, 4th August 2020
About 2 months ago

BARNET COUNCIL ALL OF A SUDDEN REMEMBERED MY PROPERTY AND ASKED ME FOR TAX DATING BACK 5 YEARS THANKFULLY I HAD KEPT COPIES OF CONTRACTS ALL WERE STUDENTS BUT BARNET HAD NOT COLLECTED ANY TAX FROM GOVERNMENT I SENT CONTRACTS THEY WANTED MY BANK STATEMENTS SENT THOSE THIS HAD TO BE DUPLICATED SEVERAL TIMES AS THEIR INBOX COULD NOT TAKE ALL THOSE STATEMENTS AND CONTRACTS THE LAST TENANTS I HAD A COMPNY WHO PAID THE DEPOSIT AND 1 MONTH THEN NOTHING LUCKY FOR ME I HAD RENT GUARANTEE AND LEGAL COVER FROM DAS THEY TOOK 10 MO TO EVICT WITH BAILIFFS I WENT IN TO PROPERTY ALL ROOMS HAD A PARTITION LIKE STABLES LIGHTS CAME OUT OF SOCKETS INSTEAD OF 5 PEOPLE THEY HAD CRAMMED 10 TOOK 1 MO TO TEAR ALL DOWN REPAIR DAMAGE COUNCIL SAID I OWED FOR TIME TO REPAIR SHOWED THEIR CONTRACT WHICH WAS FOR 1 YEAR SO LET THEM GO AFTER THIS COMPANY WHICH I HAD GOT FROM REPUTABLE AGENT LUCKY FOR ME I ASKED THEM TO PAY RENT GUARANTEE INSURANCE THEN COUNCIL CLAIMED FOR ANOTHER PROPERTY IN WHICH ENDEAVOR HAD BEEN RENTING THEY HAD BEEN FINED FOR NO FIRE PROTECTION ON ANOTHER OF THEIR PROPERTIES WHICH HAD 3 FLOORS 20000 POUNDS THE COMPANY WENT BANKRUPT DUE TO DEFENCE COSTS THEY LEFT ME 4 SITTING TENANTS WHICH I SLOWLY CAJOLLED OU THE LAST ONE I HAD TO HELP WITH HIS LUGGAGE OUT TO NEW PLACE THIS ONE ALSO I HAD GOT RENT GUARANTEE AS I FELT SOMETHING WAS GOING WRONG BUT THE INSURANCE CO BLAMED THE BROKER AND WOULD NOT PAY I WENT TO OMBUDSMAN WHO RULED THE BROKER WAS AT FAULT HE PAID 10000 P NOW BOTH ARE HMO AND I LET MDREAM PROPERTIES SUB LET WITH CORONA THEY SAID 4000 P WAS OWING FROM TENANTS NOT PAYING I COULD GO AFTER HIM BUT I PREFER NOT TO USE LEGAL AS ITS A MORASS THIS COUNTRY HAS ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTICE SYSTEM AND ALL GOES TO SPONGERS IN SWITZERLAND WHERE I LIVED THE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS VERY FAIR AND BAD TENANTS CANNOT GET AWAY WITH WHAT HAPPENS HERE NOW WITH CORONA MY SON HAS NOT BEEN PAID FOR 7 MONTHS CANNOT EVICT TILL 24 8 20 BUT RISHI IS DOLLING OUT OUR MONEY LIKE CONFETTI WE ARE GOING TO BE HIT HARD THIS GOVT IS GETTING THE WHOLE POPULATION TO BECOME JOBSEEKERS AND SPONGERS I WAS CALLED BY NEIGHBOUR AS THE GAS COMPANY WAS TRYING TO BREAK IN TO CHANGE METERS TO PAY AS YOU GO AS THE COMPANY HAD BEEN USING A CREDIT CARD OF SOMEONE ELSE FRAUDULENTLY

Badger

19:37 PM, 4th August 2020
About 2 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Gunga Din at 30/07/2020 - 11:40
"I wonder whether contractual vs. statutory periodic makes any difference?"

Yes, all the difference in the world.

I have had an uphill battle with several letting agents to get them to change their agreements to make clear that things become contractual (and not the default statutory) at the end of the fixed period.

One (large national chain) was so uncooperative and indeed their legal department was plain flat out wrong that I moved all of the properties that I had with them away to a new agent.

Chris @ Possession Friend

2:24 AM, 5th August 2020
About 2 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Badger at 04/08/2020 - 19:37
Just to be clear, all tenancies after the Fixed term ends will be Periodic, its just if the Tenancy agreement doesn't state it will be a " Contractual Periodic Tenancy " the presumption is the tenancy will be a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.

Nathan

18:51 PM, 24th August 2020
About a month ago

@the Readers Questions -
Hi Nav,
Most definitely you'll be liable for council tax from the end of the previous contract which I think you alluded to it being 28 June (unless of course you can prove otherwise by showing them a signed contract that has a later date of exiry!) and when the New contract officially begins at 18 July.
In future I would also strongly suggest you do not let a tenant take possession of your property until Christmas contract start date for at least three reasons -
1.) What if something bad occurs in that time up untik start of contract?
2.) No insurance cover
3.) You're liable for c.tax and utilities

What I expect you did was come to an arrangement with new tenant due to the mess caused by previous tenant. It would have been better to start contract on 13 July but offer them a discount on first month's rent then you would've been covered against the three things above..
Hope that helps.

To the person who used capitals for his whole rant style post - there was no need and feels like you're shouting at everyone. We all understand the anamolies and frustrations of renting.
All that's occurring in the PRS sector now is to rebalance between landlord and tenant, but it's just gone too far towards the tenant in this present time, however with enough protest and people pointing out the errors it will resume to middle ground eventually where it (legislation) should result in being fair and just for both parties. Government interference is sometimes needed but they're just not very good at implementing things effecively without creating a vast swathe of unintended consequences and are very slow in the process. Keep the faith and adjust. All the best 👍

WP

19:53 PM, 24th August 2020
About a month ago

Cheers to everyone for that opportune thread! I am expecting a bill from the council on that basis shortly...I'm now armed and prepared! Fight on!

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