UC47 rejected but tenant consistently in arrears?

UC47 rejected but tenant consistently in arrears?

8:17 AM, 24th April 2020, About 2 years ago 67

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I have just had a UC47 rejected as it states rent arrears are not in excess of two months rent. Does this mean the total tent of the property – or does this mean the total amount of rent due by the tenant towards her part of the rent – in other words her top ups? A distinct difference.

I want to challenge this as tenant is in arrears to the tune of over £1,000, but this has built up as a direct result of her negation of payment of the top ups to the rent which have been consistently underpaid since April 2019. If I have to wait till two months actual rent accrues first (that’s over £1700) then the period of arrears will span nearly 2 years!

Anyone had a similar issue – can I challenge on this basis as it is clearly unfair.

Many thanks

Reluctant Landlord

Editor’s Note:

.Gov Click here: If a tenant is having difficulty paying their rent, fill in the UC47 form to request payment of rent from a tenant’s Universal Credit.



0:18 AM, 3rd May 2020, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Paul Shears at 03/05/2020 - 00:01
Now with the UC system, I have only started accepting those on benefits with a guarantor. I had been accepting tenants on housing benefit since 2004, and it all worked out well some of which, I had for many years with very few problems.

I did ensure that in all cases the rent was paid directly to me from the outset so in respect of rent if I did lose, it was minimal but now with each tenant that I lose it runs into several thousands.

Mick Roberts View Profile

18:08 PM, 3rd May 2020, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Clint at 26/04/2020 - 18:31
Excuse my delay people,
Behind with me emails.

Ha ha yes Clint u sum it all up, that's exactly what I go through, UC ignore us.
I in the next few months have ICE looking at my complaints I sent in 2 years ago. But as Bill knows & says, DWP get found guilty, but no recompense for us that's housing the nation's vulnerable.

Anyone with UC tenants must use Bill's https://universalcreditadvice.com/
I do plug his site & not for me nor for Bill, but us & u UC Landlords need all the help we can get. Cause UC just does not talk to the very important Landlord who is housing these people. Until that changes, homeless will rocket.

I'm in the pilot trial Bill & Sherrelle got me involved to & I must say WHOOPY DOOZY DOO, massive improvement on the UC47 form. Very VERY quick, about 92 seconds, & every one gets actioned unlike the UC47 form where I used to send off 48 in 2 months & they'd lose every one-Ha ha yes u know that don't u Clint & everyone else.

Clint, the Directors of UC are thicker than the bloke u meet in the pub after 10 pints. Their replies are shocking.


19:25 PM, 3rd May 2020, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mick Roberts at 03/05/2020 - 18:08Do you or anyone else believe that there is a possibility of recourse by taking legal action? Surely, if the case law applies to the councils, it would apply to DWP.

This new pilot trial which I assume is to replace the UC47 form you are involved in sounds very interesting. Would you say, with this new system losses are minimised?

It seems to me that the government are creating a breed of thieves with the UC system where, it is very tempting for perfectly honest tenants to be tempted into becoming “Criminals” when it is so easy to just keep the rental element of the benefit and get away with it. Without a doubt this is theft and most tenants with the help of the council know that they are in a position where, it will be months before they are evicted if at all they are.

In terms of eviction, the landlord has then to weigh up if it is better to just keep the tenant and accept the loss or, possibly face a legal battle in the eviction process if at all the tenant is in fact evicted. The landlord then has the empty period with loss of rent and council tax to pay and the possibility of getting another similar tenant and all the additional work associated with it.

Mick Roberts View Profile

7:41 AM, 4th May 2020, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Clint at 03/05/2020 - 19:25Bill's the man to ask on that.
At the moment, what I know no, No.
We do need something & the more, me, u, Bill, others on here, everyone else, keeps complaining, we may get things a bit better. I had access to a Tier 2 complaints woman for 4 months, all my complaints stopped, she's now been moved, complaints started again. So they know & we must try educate them, that if they gave us email & communicated with us like HB, they'd save a fortune on complaints & if the Govt get to know, a fortune on homeless.
Like Jonathon Clarke says, as soon as the Process starts excluding the very important Landlord that houses the person, he's out of here.
I've been doing HB 23 years & like u, knew everything, could solve things. It's so frustrating for us that DWP UC has gone back 23+ years to way worse than what HB was. All the good things HB changed over the years to make it better for tenant & us has gone.
The new UC47 online, the way it is at moment, is yes much better. I suppose u gonna' still have your losses before that, but unlike the UC47 form where u never know if it's been processesd, the online thing 100% works very well. Why they haven't rolled it out to others yet I don't know. But boy oh boy we all thought the normal HB route & Councils were slow taking 3 weeks to do something, UC DWP is 2 years.
Yes, the tenants knowing they will be months before evicted is a temporary stay of execution for them which the Govt & Councils want which makes the Landlord's lives terrible, but cause they do this, it's worse for them long term as we being much more selective next time. Meaning less than perfect HB UC tenants can't get anywhere.
When a tenant is in 2 months arrears, it's like Gold-dust to me. I want to keep that person. I'm finally being paid forever instead of starting again like u say with someone new who again could give me 2 months arrears. HB couldn't understand this to start with saying Ooh u should evict them. But now they say Ooh yes can see your reasoning behind it.


9:48 AM, 4th May 2020, About 2 years ago

I like you, was most satisfied when the tenants were 2 months in arrears and the rental payment came to me after submitting a UC47 form, and payments start being paid to me as you say. However, new things have transpired more recently where, it appears that the tenant can ask for the payment to be made to them at any time and without a whim, UC starts paying it back to the tenant which results to even further debts.
To add insult to injury, I just looked at my emails prior to this only to find, that the two UC47 emails which I sent last week came back as being deleted without being read so obviously, another month without payment. See one of the messages below:
“Your message

Subject: UC47 - Managed Payment to Landlord & Third-Party Deductions -xxxx
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:36:03 PM (UTC+00:00) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London

was deleted without being read on Monday, May 4, 2020 8:39:04 AM (UTC+00:00) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London”
I have now sent the email again and will be proceeding with my two hours wait on the call to UC.
I have been in the rental business since 1996, and I believe it is now definitely the time to get out of this business. I in fact already have three properties on the market where, I had three buyers where one pulled out not knowing what would happen due to Covid-19, and the other two are still purchasing but progress is at a standstill due to the lockdown.

Bill irvine View Profile

13:46 PM, 4th May 2020, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Clint at 03/05/2020 - 19:25
Hi Clint

Pursuing legal action is a possibility but this would need to be done via the English courts in the form of an online Small Claims action. Last year we pursued a case through the Scottish Courts (Simple Procedure) and secured a payment without a hearing, as DWP conceded on the morning of the scheduled hearing.

Taking action in Engand is not so straightforward as you can incur court costs if you lose, on top of the admin fee for making the online claim. It may also be best to secure the services of a Barrister to represent, as the law of contract is complex and DWP will definitely defend any such claims.

In the case of Universal Credit, DWP intentionally dropped the appellate structure, which permits appeals to independent tribunals, in the case of Housing Benefit. So, whilst you can continue to pursue losses to Tribunals in HB/LHA, using the Upper-tier caselaw, you can't do so for UC. More the pity as Landlords could have bombarded the Tribunal Service & secured compensation for DWP's gross maladministration.



14:21 PM, 4th May 2020, About 2 years ago

Hi Bill
I was hoping that DWP could be taken to court collectively as, I am sure that there must be many similar cases, that is why, I was suggesting crowd funding. I would not want to take the risk of funding a barrister where if I lost, I stood to lose tens of thousands but if there were sufficient contenders, I would be willing to share the costs.
Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will just have to continue with my plan which is to get out of this business.

Mick Roberts View Profile

17:16 PM, 4th May 2020, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Clint at 04/05/2020 - 14:21
Yes same here Clint 1997ish.

If the likes of me & u ain't gonna' house UC any more, they gonna' have a problem on their hands.

They'd solve a lot of homeless if they'd only talk to Landlords & let us email UC.

I'll chuck 1k in Clint if u want to organise it. I don't know if Bill knows enough Landlords that would do this. I'd want it to be some sort of precedent case though where the ruling stands for future cases.

Bill irvine View Profile

17:38 PM, 4th May 2020, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mick Roberts at 04/05/2020 - 17:16
Hi Clint/Mick

Before you start “crowd funding” efforts, we need to secure advice on whether it’s possible to pursue DWP in this way.

The APA scheme, unlike HB/LHA, is discretionary based, so that might mean any challenge must be based on Judicial Review grounds, involving 6 figures. I’ll start to investigate.



18:11 PM, 4th May 2020, About 2 years ago

Thanks Bill. Yes, I think that is the best course of action at this stage.
Also good to see that Mick too, is in support of this.

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