EPC – Improvement advice for 2025 please?

EPC – Improvement advice for 2025 please?

12:00 PM, 19th January 2022, About 2 years ago 59

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We are a company just starting our adventure into the BTL market – we own 1 property and are nearing completion on the second in the North East. This property is well into Level E of the EPC and I’m looking at options we can do during renovation to up the level getting ready for 2025.

One of the items I’m wanting to investigate is solar PV which seems to gain a lot of points, the other is thermal cladding – but being an end of terrace house, cladding seems to be very expensive. On the other hand, Solar PV (based on websites) seems to be doable if we can increase the rent from £500 to £550

In a discussion with our agent about this, his advice was to forget about this at present as:
* The legislation is still under discussion and will only apply to housing associations from 2025
* He expects the points basis will change as it did when level E was introduced – “suddenly all brick house complied with level E”
*The government, despite killing Green Homes, will make funding available for all house owners

Am I worrying unduly about this proposed legislative change?

Thanks in advance

Mike


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Comments

Reluctant Landlord

13:22 PM, 26th January 2022, About 2 years ago

Is the current points system used to measure the current EPC's actually available publicly anywhere? One OP suggested there is only one point extra if insulation over 400mm. Where is all this info? It might make it easier for us all to make a better judgement on now by making cheap and small improvements might make a difference - especially if a new EPC is needed before 2025.

Gerald Wolff

18:09 PM, 26th January 2022, About 2 years ago

Certainly assessors do not go out of their way to get any information that might up the rating. Have just had a new EPC done, when I bought the property it was C rated and now it has gone down to E, yet nothing has been done to affect the EPC since purchased. Proof is what is needed to get an assessor to improve his assessment.
This whole energy furore is enough to make me consider selling up. As usual the PRS is the soft touch.

Landlord DEA

18:35 PM, 26th January 2022, About 2 years ago

I'm a landlord and also a DEA. One of the problems some landlords are going to face is lost documentation. Before Christmas I looked at a 1967-75 build, top floor flat. it got a high 'D'. The management company insisted there was retro flat ceiling insulation, but didn't have the paperwork. Nor did the owner.
Turns out the owner had another top floor flat on the same estate which had a leak necessitating exposing the roofing. Whereupon we could all see some Kingspan insulation board. He got his 'C', but this will cause problems all over.

Reluctant Landlord

18:36 PM, 26th January 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Gerald Wolff at 26/01/2022 - 18:09
which why I am very keen to understand how this algorythm works exactly and on what basis 'points' are given or not as the case may be. It seems a dark art if you ask me. Paying someone to assess something yet not completely being in any understanding of what they are actually assessing it on. There is not one assessor I have asked (currently looking for one for an expired EPC) that has actively been honest up front with what rating I could expect in advance. The current rating I have is an E and there have been some improvements like changes to LED etc so I am expecting a bit of a change upwards. BUT if I know if this was not going to tip the balance to retain at least an E then I would consider other things in advance of the new EPC being done to get it over the line. The only response I have had so far is pay me £80 to do a desktop analysis, then you will know. You can then do the changes or whatever it needs to get to the min E and then I'll visit (and charge you another £185) and do the EPC with final grade. Its akin to extortion! I am desperate to find out how they actually assess where these points can be lost/gained so essentially I can do the 'desktop analysis' myself, save £80 and put that towards anything that is needed.

Reluctant Landlord

18:41 PM, 26th January 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Landlord DEA at 26/01/2022 - 18:35
so in addition to spare LED lightbulbs to replace blown ones and ladders to open the loft space and photo there and then the height of the insulation as proof, it looks like I shall also be taking a drill to put a hole in the walls to show evidence of retro fit wall insulation. I might as go the whole hog and dress in a clowns costume -- the circus that is EPC certification.

Chris Byways

19:40 PM, 26th January 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by DSR at 26/01/2022 - 18:36
How Much? £185 for one EPC? My last was about £65 last autumn iirc. What do others pay?

For the points algorithm one could ask the assessor or their assessment authority - shown on each EPC, or more likely the Gov mailto:mhclg.digital-services@communities.gov.uk?subject=EPB%20-
under FoI.

You could at a cost get another surveyor to re survey at a cost to see if substantially different and use that to complain. But the second will doubtless see on line when entering the first done recently!

I have two warm flats downstairs in a listed building both tenants warm as toast and happy enough with bills, but are D rated, upstairs flat is C, and says bills are high and it’s cold.

I’m about to try to contact that assessor for more EPCs as I think there IS a difference in their perception of a timber framed wattle and daub building.

Seething Landlord

19:42 PM, 26th January 2022, About 2 years ago

There is an EPC action plan in progress at the moment - you can read the latest update here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/improving-energy-performance-certificates-action-plan-progress-report/improving-energy-performance-certificates-action-plan-progress-report

if you have the stamina to wade through it.

One thing that is clear is that changes are on the way but until the Government response to the consultation on MEES and any new legislation are published there seems little point in doing anything apart from low cost measures that are worthwhile for reasons other than trying to anticipate and comply with as yet unknown criteria.

Landlord DEA

19:54 PM, 26th January 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by DSR at 26/01/2022 - 18:41It's true that if you're not a DEA, you've got little idea of what to expect.
The calculation is also dependent upon the square meterage. Below is a point increase on two different sized properties.
Points 50m2 70m2
LEL?????????????????? 1 ??????? 2
RS ???????????????? 2 ??????? 3
dg ???????????????? 3
wall ins ?????????????? 9 ?????? 9
new boiler ??????????????????? 4 -- 6
100 Rins > 270 ???????????????? 2
Rins is Roof insulation (going from 100 to 270mm), dg is double glazing, rs is room thermostat, LEL is low energy lighting.
Sorry for all the ???. It wouldn't take my formatting
As it goes, I'm going to be offering a service to landlords to upgrade their EPC. The difference is that an EPC will usually give a list of recommendations. These are costed and if I can point to another way of getting an upgrade and saving money then I'm making a charge for that. Absolutely! If I can save a landlord 2 or 3 grand by going with something that doesn't even appear as a recommendation then that is a valuable service and I don't see why I shouldn't get £100 out of it myself.
There is a reason why some recommendations do not appear on the EPC. It's about the process built in to the system. I've been doing EPCs since 2007, so I've got an eye for it.
If you want to know more, find my profile and look up the url - I'm only doing this in my neck of the woods though

Seething Landlord

20:35 PM, 26th January 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Landlord DEA at 26/01/2022 - 19:54
London EPC are offering something similar for £30 + VAT - see https://www.london-epc.co.uk/get-tailored-recommendations-report/ where they say:

"Domestic Recommendations Letter – This option, for domestic properties, will provide some simple feedback based on the EPC, but in more detail than the basic recommendations listed on the report. We will explain what options are available to you in order to boost the rating of the property, what is feasible and realistic for the property, and what we would suggest is the cheapest and easiest way to achieve your desired rating."

The sooner this becomes the norm and a standard service provided with every EPC the better as far as I am concerned.

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