EICR report – fail (C2) smoke alarms expired?

by Readers Question

13:28 PM, 18th January 2021
About 3 months ago

EICR report – fail (C2) smoke alarms expired?

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EICR report – fail (C2) smoke alarms expired?

A recent EICR report has been returned with a FAIL on a C2, where the mains powered smoke detectors are 10 years old and classed as out of date.

All are working correctly with no faults. Where does it state in regulations that this is a FAIL and not an C3 recommended to replace?

I’ve researched Google with no written word confirming reasoning. Only requesting where I can retrieve the information as nothing on Gov.uk site etc.

Thanks in advance.

JM

Comments

Paul Shears

18:59 PM, 18th January 2021
About 3 months ago

Reply to the comment left by paul robinson at 18/01/2021 - 13:58
If you can prove that the required work has been done, preferably by another electrician via a small works certificate, there is no requirement to repeat the EICR. Job done.

JGM

22:48 PM, 18th January 2021
About 3 months ago

Well why do you think 🤔 I raised the matter. Please re read my query. I asked for where I could retrieve information advising and warning users of the smoke detectors of their life span. It isn't highlighted anywhere. Apart from Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 where it mentions it but not England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿. As a property manager - You obviously didn't know your clients smoke detectors had a life span until your recent EICR or possibly previous personal experience. As you have pointed out, as I quote you "any responsible Landlord or agent would want to get these replaced within 28 days anyway to protect their tenants (and themselves should a fire start)!". If you don't know, you don't know. Its clear the only checks normally done on the smoke detectors is during check in prior to tenancy starting and then obligation by the tenant as part of the tenancy agreement. Now it is suddenly included in the EICR, but not highlighted. I agree more visible prominent information on this oversight by all publishers on the subject of smoke detectors life span needs an urgent review. I know the CO 2 monitors have an expiry date through experience. They are clearly labelled on the outside casing. Thanks for your input. Not intending to be disrespectful but my concern is that the knowledge of this life span needs to be a bigger focal point to warn users, and particularly landlords. Think about this - Who sets a reminder for 10 years time? For example 'Need to replace your smoke detectors you fitted 10 years ago!! '
The introduction of required EICR every 5 years I am sure will reduce that reminder in time, as electricians record C3 classifications, advising of their expiry date perhaps. Only time will tell.
As a responsible person, I have already arranged for the original C2 issue I raised to be actioned as soon as possible. We all are entitled to our opinions.

steve p

0:25 AM, 19th January 2021
About 3 months ago

Reply to the comment left by JGM at 18/01/2021 - 22:48
Im a fully qualified electrician with inspection and testing qualifications.

Fire alarms are outside the scope of an EICR, having said that if the fire alarms are out of date or will go out of date before the end of the EICR I note it as an observation but do not give it a code as it is not codeable.

To be fair to the electrician the issue is if he had done like I do just note it or put it as a C3, 99% of landlords would probably not even read it, all they look for is satisfactory or unsatisfactory and if unsatisfactory the C1 and C2. So I can see the reasoning for why they have C2'd it as it has clearly drawn your attention to it.

My thinking though is still its outside the scope and by noting it I have already gone above and beyond, I do not use automated EICR form fillers so I use plain english and try to put in explanations and locations so my theory is if the landlord and tenant dont even bother reading it well then thats their fault. I am sure a landlord though may argue I should bring it more to their attention, sometimes you cant win.

JGM

10:55 AM, 19th January 2021
About 3 months ago

Reply to the comment left by steve p at 19/01/2021 - 00:25
Thanks Steve. My initial entry was basically an anomalie that, to my knowledge, had not been addressed fully before.

The only problem with an electrician awarding a C2 on an EICR is, as you know, is that it requires immediate action, as it has been classed as a potential danger. It will come down to the individual inspecting and using their sound judgement and use of classifications, determining 'satisfactory' or 'unsatisfactory' .

In the main, I suppose it will further depend upon opinion and interpretation of the regulations. The Landlord Smoke Alarm Regulations for 2020 states that: '.... if you have a WORKING smoke alarm on each habitable level of your property, you are within the law'. Regards.

Rennie

16:43 PM, 19th January 2021
About 3 months ago

Reply to the comment left by steve p at 19/01/2021 - 00:25
If it is on the EICR report somewhere then you HAVE brought it to the landlord's attention

michaelwgroves

8:52 AM, 23rd January 2021
About 3 months ago

I'm an electrician and a landlord.
You won't find anything on google about coding out of date smoke alarms, because it does not come under an EICR, it is out of scope. Therefore it does not have a code. However, a good electrician would check and comment.
Tell your electrician to remove the code and reissue the EICR, if not, tell him you will raise with his CPS. You do not need a new EICR or minor works certificate.
But most importantly, change the smoke alarms, and your electrician. This is basic stuff for an electrician.

JGM

9:38 AM, 23rd January 2021
About 3 months ago

Reply to the comment left by michaelwgroves at 23/01/2021 - 08:52
Thanks Michael. We have appointed another electrician to replace smoke detectors on recommendation and NOT authorised the original electrician contracted out by letting agent.

JGM

9:47 AM, 23rd January 2021
About 3 months ago

Reply to the comment left by michaelwgroves at 23/01/2021 - 08:52
Despite my challenge on EICR report - Our managing letting agent is adamant it is an EICR failure.

michaelwgroves

10:01 AM, 23rd January 2021
About 3 months ago

Reply to the comment left by JGM at 23/01/2021 - 09:47
With all due respect, your letting agent is not an electrician, so does not know what they are taking about. I would bypass the agent and speak directly with the electrician who completed the EICR and mention what I said in my previous post. It’s not hard to contact his CPS. It’s just a quick phone call and everything will get sorted. You are protected by his CPS.

Paul Shears

11:10 AM, 23rd January 2021
About 3 months ago

Reply to the comment left by JGM at 23/01/2021 - 09:47
Work around the agent, as I did, and take a look at other areas of their "service". Then draw some overall conclusion regarding the value that they add.

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