Has anyone experienced situation where debtor has lied in court?

by Readers Question

10:46 AM, 22nd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Has anyone experienced situation where debtor has lied in court?

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Has anyone experienced situation where debtor has lied in court?

I recently applied for a debtor with 4 months rent arrears to go to court to provide evidence of finances. It was not possible to serve paperwork at the address she gave at the Small Claims Court as the bailiffs were told she had moved. However, the address she gave at the court hearing was this same address and although her parents house, she said she was living in private unfurnished accommodation. Has anyone experienced situation where debtor has lied in court?

As well as this she declared having no assets, yet on social media it appears that she runs a car and is working more than the hours stated in court.

I would be interested to know if anyone has experienced a situation where a person with an unpaid CCJ a has been asked to go to court to show evidence of finances but has lied in court about their assets and their address?

The person in question is the Director of a card shop so I wonder if it is possible to claim the sum owed from the business if the debt is not connected and is for a private rental property?

Many thanks

Helen



Comments

Gary Nock

14:55 PM, 22nd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Helen if she is a Director this implies a Limited Company. Unless the CCJ is in the name of the limited company then you cannot claim off that company.

However if she is a Director then she will be drawing a salary from the limited company - hopefully. Check the limited companies accounts at the Companies House Website. Accounts and other documents are available. Some for free. Others cost £1. The state of the company accounts should show how much is in the bank etc. This can be produced to the Judge at the hearing to show that she has access to assetts to pay you. The motor vehicle that she has may be on HP. Do an HPI check. You don't have to own the vehicle to do the check and last one I did was £20. If it comes up its on HP it's not an asset. If its not then it may be an asset. Then you need to check with DVLA to see if its registered to her. You used to be able to pay £12 to get registered keeper details.

Or if the debts over £600 then you pay £60 to High Court Sherifs and let them loose on her. Check out HCE Enforcement who are very thorough.

Richard Williams

12:21 PM, 23rd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Hi Helen, you haven't said how much the debt is for. But i have had several of these cases and i can tell you its very difficult to get anywhere with them. Debtors who are willing to lie on oath in court and ignore a CCJ are not going to pay.
Frustrating as it may seem but throwing money at it could be pointless, Even if it goes back to court they will lie again.
With regards to high Court Sherifs, dont believe the hype, new changes in the law by the government mean the debtor only has to say they are ill and the Sheriffs can do nothing.

Steve Grant

12:31 PM, 23rd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Hi Helen

Gary's advice seems spot on to me.

I had a strange but not dissimilar experience whilst supporting a client in the courts last year.

The tenant who had been evicted from the property for non payment of rent, malicious damage and deliberate theft of utilities lied blatantly in the court.

He furnished false witness statements in support of his argument, modified the witness statement of his line manager who was also in court (begrudgingly) and had fabricated evidence which we had disproved categorically. In addition to this he also provided false accounts of income and expenditure which were again disproved.

In the end the case went our way and was found in favour of my client but the amazing thing is that when our barrister pushed for the judge to address the issues of the false statement and other provable anomalies (before the verdict), he was bullied into dropping it. The judge seemed completely disinterested.

I was hoping that there would be some recourse against the individual for perverting the course of justice (or similar charge) but nothing was levied against him for deliberate and calculated deceit.

My client is now in the process of trying to recover the £12k plus which the who experience had cost her.

If you can afford to pursue it and there is a good chance of recovering the debt then I think you should do it.

Good luck with the path you choose.

14:53 PM, 23rd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Many thanks for taking time to reply. It is helpful to hear of other's experiences

Ian Ringrose

15:01 PM, 23rd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Private prosecution for perverting the course of justice?

john henderson

15:09 PM, 23rd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Does anyone know why we have such a weak legal system ? It just seems impossible to get money out of people who have been proved to owe it.

15:20 PM, 23rd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Yes it seems so wrong that these people can get away with running up debts like this and even after going to court and given a CCJ the creditor still has the long haul of extra costs in trying to recover the debt.

Richard Williams

15:55 PM, 23rd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "john " at "23/02/2015 - 15:09":

Easy....because we will infringe THEIR human rights !!

Gary Nock

16:52 PM, 23rd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Well I could tell you a story about a "property related" company that failed to pay out a rent insurance claim of 4k. Taken to County Court. CCJ obtained. High Court Sheriffs instructed. Then owner of company resigned and put a stooge in and tried to liquidate company. It's the fifth or sixth time he's done it. Now been disqualified as a company Director for 7 years. Not much chance of getting money...but he lives in a £750,000 house. How unfair is that?

paul landlord

17:50 PM, 23rd February 2015
About 4 years ago

Happened to me twice so I do not bother with getting the debtor to declare their finances in court.

In one case the debtor declared not to be working although I knew this to be untrue.

I phoned the court to ask them if the defendant had provided evidence of benefits etc seeing as they were not working and indicated I believed this situation to be false.

I was told that there was no requirement to show evidence of not working and the clerk said that she had provided a statement under oath so she must be telling the truth.

When I sarcastically pointed out that we could save millions of taxpayers money every year on the court system by bypassing trials with judges, magistrates and juries by just asking the defendant if they were guilty or not and accepting that they obviously weren't cos they said so she hung up on me!

The county court has 'milk teeth' and are a joke where these issues are concerned so I choose to write debts like this off.

The only way I could get anywhere was to pay for a private detective to follow her for a period and gain evidence- yes like I am about to throw a lot of good money after bad.

The county court should be ashamed of itself

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