A question on section 21 documents needed?
2 years ago | 23 comments
Urgent – Guarantor form advice?
9:37 AM, 7th February 2024, 2 years ago
17
Hello, I have been asked to sign as a witness to a deed on a guarantor agreement.
My friend’s daughter is renting a property in Belfast from July along with 4 other students. The students have all signed the TA (they signed today) along with the LL (signed last week) and now the agents are asking for guarantors.
I am not 100% sure if she actually HAS to fill in the guarantor deed. I have seen the TA it states:
“The rent is XXX pcm and shall be payable by standing order. All tenant guarantee forms and standing order mandates must be handed into to XXX (agency) within 1 week of signing the lease. In the even that the standing order or mandate and guarantee forms are not returned by this date the then landlord reserves the right to deem the Tenancy Agreement null and void and the landlord reserves the right to re-let the premise and retains all monies paid as a security deposit for the said premises. Until the property is re-let the tenants shall be responsible for the payment of any rent becoming due.”
(NB they paid £200 as a holding deposit to take it off the market and stop other viewings).
My questions –
1. I can’t understand how the agent can now ask for any guarantor to sign a guarantee form AFTER the TA has been signed. Surely if having a guarantor was part and parcel of the tenancy being offered and agreed, then this would be requested before the TA was signed and written into the TA as “A guarantor is required…..?” then the above wording would make sense.
2 The only reference inside the TA is under the heading Guarantor suggests it is optional – “If there is a guarantor, the guarantor hereby guarantees that the tenant will comply…….(usual stuff)”
3. Neither my friend (nor I suspect the other parent of the students) received a copy of the TA themselves at any point from the Agent before either the student (or indeed the landlord!) signed it.
Finally 4, If the TA is joint and severally, then surely they don’t need 5 separate guarantors anyway as one will do?
I’m confused what to advise her to do –
a) sign and return it, knowing it is going to be difficult for the LL to enforce (should he need to) it given the fact that they have never agreed to be one in the first place nor necessarily had sight of the TA before the students signed it themselves?
b) refuse to sign it because it the tenancy has clearly already been signed by all the parties involved (the LL and tenants already) and so the TA is no longer conditional upon the guarantee being signed.
c) advise that only 1 parent needs to sign one guarantor form (one of the parents who actually live in NI)
Obviously the wording about the LL deeming the TA as void is worrying her (the students need a property for the start of next academic year) so she doesn’t to lose the property for them.
Advice please!
Reluctant Landlord
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Member Since October 2020 - Comments: 1186
5:24 PM, 7th February 2024, About 2 years ago
I would agree that if the tenants and landlord/agent have signed the TA, then there is a contract to supply housing and it seems as though the guarantor requirement was an afterthought. Although there is a contract, there is not yet a tenancy unless the tenants are already occupying. The landlord/agent could choose to default on the contract if the guarantor deed is not signed by refusing to give possession. They would owe the tenants compensation equal to their losses, which they would have to mitigate by finding another property asap. The parents could try calling the landlords bluff but the outcome may be uncertain.
Member Since September 2022 - Comments: 193
5:38 PM, 7th February 2024, About 2 years ago
Oh the good old days of doing nothing and getting a HMO licence !
Well after getting my EPC, GSC. EiCR, Fire Safe Certificate, PAT testing and Legionnaires Checks done and printed I then had the HMO inspection.
Every room measured
Turnlocks on exit doors
Fire Safety checks such as mains wired interlinked smoke alarms and CO Alarm.
Emergency lighting
Right to Rent checks with a £20,000 fine for each tenant if not carried out !
How to Rent leaflet passed onto tenants and it must be the latest one.
Deposit, PI and Deposit certificate.
Tenancy agreement done by NRLA
Fit for Habitation
Decent homes standards
Now in Manchester we have the ” Good Landlord Charter ”
Not the ” Good Landlord and Responsible Tenant Charter ”
The Agent is poor by not getting the simple things right.
OH forgot the Video Inventory done by an Independent Video company to prove condition of property.
Ask you friend to take lots of photos and make sure her child reports every single problem or fault by email to the Agent/ LL and NOT by phone calls
Member Since September 2018 - Comments: 3548 - Articles: 5
5:38 PM, 7th February 2024, About 2 years ago
Reply to the comment left by David at 07/02/2024 – 17:24
the guarantor forms are being filled in by the parents of all the students and being send back as far as I am aware. They are all making it clear on the individual guarantor forms though that they are only standing as guarnator for the own child not the whole group.
I cant see why the agent would find that unacceptable as it is done within the week that the lease was signed by the students which is what the lease states.
Member Since September 2018 - Comments: 3548 - Articles: 5
5:40 PM, 7th February 2024, About 2 years ago
Reply to the comment left by DAMIEN RAFFERTY at 07/02/2024 – 17:38
confused further by this being a property in Northern Ireland. I’m finding out by helping her that not all these things apply… its difficult to see what is required and what isn’t.
Member Since September 2018 - Comments: 3548 - Articles: 5
5:45 PM, 7th February 2024, About 2 years ago
Reply to the comment left by DAMIEN RAFFERTY at 07/02/2024 – 17:38
actually a brain pick for you – the large house has a communal entrance, communal lighting/fire alarm etc. Should this all be on a separate elec meter to the rest of the property that the students occupy so the landlord pays the elec bill for this?
Agent confirms there is one elec meter and one gas meter at the property (HMO’s over there are one TA – not a TA for each room etc and so bills extra)
Member Since September 2022 - Comments: 193
5:57 PM, 7th February 2024, About 2 years ago
Different towns and cites are doing there own thing never mind Different countries.
What a mess.
However Student Landlirds have been renting to students for years and 99% of the time things work out.
You get more Rent but have more issues and hoops to jump through !
More wear and tear, More regulation than a standard BTL.
You need a Lead tenant to sort the deposit stuff and lead name on TA,
Joint and Several means the whole group are responsible if the TV gets smashed or windows get broken.
We ask for ALL tenants to provide UK parent Guarantors or pay when student loans arrive so really in advance.
The Big guys with city centre tower blocks and help from council’s are squeezing out small private Landlords so in future University accomadation is only going to get way more expensive
Member Since September 2022 - Comments: 193
6:05 PM, 7th February 2024, About 2 years ago
We do bills inclusive Rent,
Gas Electric, Water, Broadband even TV Licence and Netflix so can’t speak for others.
We control the costs by installing the best eco appliances and LED lighting with motion sensors, Good Insulation,
Fair usage policy but have Never charged extra because I want a warm, dry mould free property rather than students turning off the heating cause they have No idea how much it might cost !
What kind of lighting ?
Old 500watt floodlights and standard bulbs or modern LED security lighting and motion sensors in halways and landings ? Connected to emergency lights with back up batteries.
NI might catch up in 10/15 years