Unfair UK taxation of privately owned rental PROPERTY businesses

Thank you, Mark, for commenting so promptly.
I have held you in high regards ever since I learnt a bit of your history (which you reveal from time to time).
It may surprise you that I was called "completely mad ... or clueless," or running a "charity" and most absurdly as of being "parasitic" by members of this platform.
All I said was: it reveals your character.
I did not respond further.

Reply to the comment left by SCP at 10/03/2023 - 19:45
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The assets used in a car rental business are generally depreciating assets. Property on the other hand has historically been a hugely appreciating asset, meaning that property owners are seldom exposed to risk of capital loss in the way that owners of other businesses are. If an entrepreneurial business can’t cover its costs and the business folds, the owner stands to lose all their money. If a landlord can’t cover their costs then they've still got the property available to sell if necessary. So it’s always felt reasonable to me that the tax treatment should be different. I’m speaking here both as a landlord and as an owner of a (non property) business.

Reply to the comment left by Katy Ann at 19/03/2023 - 11:14
I follow your logic using the car rental company example but in many businesses the value of assets do appreciate, e.g. care homes, pubs, hotels B&B's, campsites, marina's etc. etc.

Those businesses are all service business that are not too different to property rental businesses either. For example, a person who rents a mooring at a marina will probably be on a similar contract terms to a tenant renting a home from a landlord. Obviously without anywhere near as many regulations attached but that’s another story altogether.

Reply to the comment left by Katy Ann at 19/03/2023 - 11:14
Your view is interesting, and certainly explains the historic reasons for the tax system.
If your property (or Capital, as I prefer to call it in this context) is not appreciating, you cannot obtain vacant possession, and is not producing income (either a loss or a trifling amount chargeable to tax), you will complain bitterly - not that it will do you any good.
I purchased some property (when interest rates were around 15%). Rent Tribunals existed and there was always security of tenure for the tenant (no guaranteed vacant possession).
There were limited cases where VP could be obtained (I used these). There were tax breaks with LAPR and gross interest deduction.
I always injected my own income from other sources.
Why? To build up Capital in 10 years with the Tenants' help.
Today, LLs want to go skiing on the backs of Tenants on HB and UC (in other words, thanks to taxpayers like us).
My granddaughter goes to Val d'Isere, thanks to the sacrifice of her grandfather.

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118 at 19/03/2023 - 23:25
As I understand it, Katy Ann was stating the historic difference between "Land" and "trade or business", which sprouted different taxation of income from those sources.
This has continued with tinkering or even substantial changes, which are considered detrimental in the case of Land or Property.
You are proposing that Property (or Land) should be treated as Business.
My recollection is (please correct me, if I am wrong) that one of the arguments for the HA 1988 and s.21 was to increase the mobility of labour in England, as compared to the States.
The AST was never intended as a permanent solution qua tenant. The AST tenant was always assumed to be part of effective demand in his own right.
Everybody got on the band wagon, and property was seen as a road to riches.
Now there is a new breed of AST Tenant (with HB and UC).
We need new models to deal with the Tenants with effective demand with or without state or taxpayer assistance.

Reply to the comment left by SCP at 20/03/2023 - 15:11
Very interesting point.

How do you suggest these models might differ?

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118 at 20/03/2023 - 15:48
Thank you.
At my age, I am no longer interested in making money or in property (which bores me intensely), but try to keep up to date on a needs to know basis only.
However, if someone is serious, we could work together.
I understand that there is chat gpt 4, which is excellent.
If anybody has the professional version, I would start by asking it, and then taking it from there.