Are They Tenants or Squatters (or something else completely!)?

Are They Tenants or Squatters (or something else completely!)?

8:26 AM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago 29

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My ex tenants are a married couple with grown up children. They recently moved out of my 3 bed house into a 1 bed bungalow but their grown up sons are now occupying my property (they weren’t there to the best of my knowledge during the tenancy).

They were on a periodic tenancy after an initial 6 month AST. The sons wanted to ‘take on’ the tenancy but I turned them down as they would not meet my criteria as tenants (they are unemployed – amongst other considerations!)). They claim that if they were forced to leave they would be homeless as they have no alternative place to stay.

As things stand, I believe they will try to stay as long as possible and I am unlikely to receive any rent in the meantime. Do they have any rights? How do I get them out quickly? Are my ex tenants financially liable in any way (at present, I am not intending to give them their deposit back as they haven’t given me vacant possession on the agreed date)?

Assuming the sons stay for a period of time longer than the withheld deposit would recompense me for, would I have a case in taking court action against my ex tenants for additional financial loss?

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Adrianstep brothers


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Comments

Romain Garcin

13:19 PM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago

Demanding or accepting rent after the end of the tenancy would create a another one. It does not matter whether it is just for a week or a month.
Best to wait until there is no longer such a risk (ie agter everyone left) before recovering any mesne profit, or 'double rent'.

If tenancy has ended then remaining occupiers are trespassers, not squatters, since they moved in invited.
Since that would mean that they were lawfully occupying the property when the tenancy ended they would in any case be protected against eviction without a court order.

As already advised, legal advice should be sought immediately in order to start legal procedures without delay.

Industry Observer

13:21 PM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago

Being in effect a family matter and given Police usual indifference to squatters I'd be very surprised if they took any action at all.

I would be astonished if they have forced entry if the parents want to leave them behind easiest thing to do is give them a key.

Adrian Todd

14:10 PM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago

Thanks for all of the advice so far.

The precise current situation is that the ex tenants are only 'ex' by virtue of the fact that they don't live there anymore. Their tenancy is still active and they have given verbal notice to leave on 15th April although they have consistently avoided putting their notice in writing.

They clearly would like their sons to live there and have even offered to pay the difference between the rent and the housing benefit that they could claim. It was very clear when I went to see them a couple of weeks ago that the sons were there with their permission and their keys.

Until we get to mid April there probably isn't much I can do - I just want to be as prepared as possible (just in case). I would rather have a void than have them live there irrespective of whether they are paying rent!

Final point of note is that my outgoing tenants have not paid the final month's rent (effectively leaving me with only a couple of hundered pounds deposit) and they are on housing benefit themselves so probably don't have much cash meaning that taking them to court may be a victory in name only and still a loss financially.

Sian Wyatt

14:46 PM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago

I had a slightly similar case just over a year ago. My tenants (a couple with children) had had a period of being out of work and were not able to claim housing benefit. To cover the rent they took in a lodger. They didnt ask if they could do this and when it was made known to me I pointed out that they were not allowed to sublet, but never checked they had stopped. Apparently the lodger moved his wife and son in, pushing my tenants into one bedroom while they had the other two. I don't know what hold they had over them. Eventually, my tenant asked to meet me 'away from the house'. We clandestinely met in my car up the road and she asked me to end their tenancy as she felt it was the only way for them to be free of the lodgers (the husband had died and left his wife and son). I expressed surprise they were still there but was happy to end the tenancy as my house was by now in quite a mess. I served two months notice and the tenants found somewhere early and I was glad to see them go. When I arrived for the checkout (there was no deposit to return) the tenant seemed nervous and eager to go. I then discoveredthe lodger had locked herself into a bedroom.

I rang the police and told them th situation and that I did not know this woman and had never given her permission to live there so she was a squatter. They were very helpful and said they would come round and tell her to go. The threat of this and the fact that I was moving a new tenant in that day seemed to work and the 'squatter' moved on, if beligerently. I could see why my tenants had been afraid of her. Ho hum...

Romain Garcin

14:49 PM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Adrian Todd" at "21/03/2014 - 14:10":

That's good news, I think, as long as you've been treating their tenancy as continuing since.
If so, their tenancy is indeed continuing along with their liability to pay rent.

Perhaps when they'll realise this they'll be keen to kick their children out.
If not, although there is a valid argument that the tenancy is no longer an AST, the safer way to end the tenancy would be through the usual s.8/s.21 routes.

I hope you didn't in effect accept their surrender, as from your description you seem to ocnsider that their tenancy has indded ended...

Industry Observer

16:37 PM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago

Notice to be effective needs to be in writing from both sides - tenant as well (1996 Housing Act) A Landlord can choose to accept verbal but cannot give it, but either way in this case now it makes no odds.

Just tell them IN WRITING that when they vacate they must give you vacant possession otherwise their financial liabilities continue.

Jeremy Smith

17:15 PM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Industry Observer " at "21/03/2014 - 12:04":

Following this through then IO, if the ex-tenants have vacated and surrendered the tenancy, give them the pre-requisite amount of time to collect the remainder of their stuff.
After that has elapsed, then remove it/get rid of it:
I'm sure the children will leave of their own accord with nothing to sit on, no beds to sleep in and nothing to do their washing for them !!
You could commence legal proceedings as well, just in case they bring other furniture back into the house.

I also take the opinion that you should not accept any rent from anyone for them in your house.
And the other opinion I agree with, is that you should seek legal advice!

Question:
Is Adrian legally allowed just to enter the property if someone is living there, even if it is after the surrender from the previous tenants? Does he need to give notice ?? !!!

Please note: I am not qualifed to give any sort of advice whatsoever !!!

Industry Observer

17:57 PM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago

No he cannot just enter no matter what the status of the occupier and therefore no you can't go in and remove anything left and leave tem nothing to sleep on

Jeremy Smith

18:08 PM, 21st March 2014, About 10 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Industry Observer " at "21/03/2014 - 17:57":

That's what I thought IO,

But what if someone broke in and stealed it all ? !! 😉

Romain Garcin

12:49 PM, 24th March 2014, About 10 years ago

If the tenancy has ended, imho the landlord can indeed enter without notice. Caveats may be (a) harassment in general, and (b) protection from eviction act if occupier is previous tenant or occupied property before tenancy ended.

If you can prove that occupiers moved in after tenancy ended, IMHO you should be able to change the locks when they are not in.
That would also probably make them squatters, which is now a criminal offence.

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