Section 8 Possession Order without monies judgement?

by Readers Question

14:44 PM, 3rd March 2015
About 4 years ago

Section 8 Possession Order without monies judgement?

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Section 8 Possession Order without monies judgement?

Can a judge grant a possession order using mandatory grounds 8, 10 and 11 under a Section 8 Eviction without making an order for monies?

If so this could be a very effective way to evict tenants who don’t pay the rent.

In my experience, when trying to evict a tenant using a Section 8 a lot of the time the tenant tries to mount a counterclaim, normally with the help of the Citizens Advice Bureau.

This counterclaim response completely undermines the Section 8 Eviction process and causes massive delays in a evicting a tenant who is already not paying the rent.

With the looming amendments to the Deregulation bill and the fact that Section 21 Accelerated Possession claims will soon be much harder to enforce I wonder whether it would be possible to evict a tenant using a Section 8 but without a judgement for monies.

Any monies owed would still be chased in the small claims court but the counterclaim would be rendered ineffective because there is nothing to claim against without the judgement for monies.

Rossjudge



Comments

Monty Bodkin

19:34 PM, 3rd March 2015
About 4 years ago

The counterclaim is saying there are no arrears.
Without arrears there can be no mandatory possession.
(10 and 11 are discretionary)

David Asker

9:07 AM, 4th March 2015
About 4 years ago

I would agree with Monty, without the arrears you lose your authority to evict.

I would always advise Landlords to keep their claims for unpaid rent realistic and if anything er on the low side.

This will often prevent the issues you raise and allow quicker return of the property which will in itself allows a quicker re-rental usually negating any losses in the claim.

Ross McColl

9:55 AM, 4th March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "David Carter" at "04/03/2015 - 09:07":

Hi,
I see your point but I'm just trying to think of an effective way or evicting for rent arrears, given the amendments due to the Deregulation Bill.
Can you please explain how keeping the rental arrears at a realistic level will prevent a tenant from raising a counterclaim using the CAB and free legal representation should they be entitled.
Thanks in advance for your response.

David Asker

10:03 AM, 4th March 2015
About 4 years ago

I understand your frustration fully but the law is pretty clear and we all know that Landlords are rarely flavour of the month when making policy.

The issue I have seen is where landlords add interest and other costs and charges to their claim. In my experience it is often these that are challenged by the rogue tenant.

Whilst the Landlord may well be entitled to these additional sums, if removing these from the claim prevented any challenge then eviction is likely to be quicker

Ross McColl

10:13 AM, 4th March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "David Carter" at "04/03/2015 - 10:03":

Thanks for your response David.
When we have had this problem in the past there have been no fees or other charges added to the arrears, the tenant has been asked upon arrival at the court whether they want advice from the CAB. The smallest disrepair issue, even if it hasn't been reported to the landlord then causes massive delays while rent arrears continue to accrue.
This is especially a problem where the tenant is on housing benefit as they tend to get full legal representation. Everything to gain and nothing to lose.
Even if you successfully defend the counterclaim the damage has been done (time) and the likelihood of getting the money back is close to zero.
How likely are we to get possession orders granted using discretionary grounds? Is this the next best option?
Thanks

Romain Garcin

10:16 AM, 4th March 2015
About 4 years ago

If you have issues get possession using one of section 8's mandatory grounds, you won't get it through discretionary grounds...

The best option is to use section 21. As far as I understand the latest amendments from the Deregulation Bill won't affect it that much.

Ross McColl

10:32 AM, 4th March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Romain " at "04/03/2015 - 10:16":

Hi Romain,
If the amendments are implemented as per this policy statement https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/401602/Policy_statement_on_amendment_to_Deregulation_Bill.pdf
there are a whole host of issues that can cause problems for landlords.

Monty Bodkin

12:53 PM, 4th March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Romain " at "04/03/2015 - 10:16":

Romain,

I don't think you do understand it correctly.
If this comes in it will be a big game changer.
Rogue tenant will easily spot the obvious loopholes even if the legislators haven't (purposely?).
Landlords taking on new tenancies after this comes in will need to be ultra cautious and take a lot more precautions than previously.

Ian Ringrose

13:06 PM, 4th March 2015
About 4 years ago

I have read the new S21 laws as in the draft act; I agree with Romain that it will have little effect in most cases. If anything I would like to see the same put in for S8….

Housing standard department are well regulated with an appeal process against any orders for repairs, they have also not got the resources to cope with many tenants going to them. May local one also tell the tenant that they MUST keep paying the rent even if there are repair issues.

With S8, why can you get ask for a money order for 2 months rent, even when it is clear tenant owns over 3 to the delays in getting a hearing. (Then use the small claims court for the rest.)

Ross McColl

13:13 PM, 4th March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ian Ringrose" at "04/03/2015 - 13:06":

Hi Ian,
My local council also tell the tenant to continue paying the rent even if there are repair issues. This doesn't mean they listen, and whether they pay the rent or not has no bearing on whether any issues for disrepair are enforced.
If a tenant has got into rent arrears and has allowed their eviction to go to court, in my experience it doesn't matter how many months rent the judge orders them to pay. It doesn't get paid, the landlord just ends up out of pocket.

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