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15:55 PM, 12th August 2013, About 11 years ago 74
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We’re a professional couple with a limited company which provides a technology solution to the NHS. It suits our circumstances to rent at this moment in time.
We had a 4-year rental of a lovely apartment until last Summer, when the owner decided to downsize and move back into the property. It was a good relationship, we had treated the property as if it had been our own investment and we parted as friends – with our deposit paid back in full.
After much searching we found a 3-bed town house which appeared to offer us everything we needed. The letting agent was a member of NAEA/ARLA and appeared to be respectable. There were some agreed remedial works to be dealt with and we were given assurances that these would be attended to in due course. We moved into the property in late August 2012.
Sadly, by the beginning of November, it was apparent that the property had some significant problems. There was extensive water penetration upstairs and a rising damp problem to the ground floor. The letting agent was informed immediately, with photographic evidence and a request for urgent assistance. We moved our furniture from the 3rd bedroom.
A ‘trades-person’ appeared in due course, with a notepad and pencil but with no damp meter. A report was promised, but was not forthcoming. The letting agent promised to send another contractor. This one only worked weekends and couldn’t agree a time to call; that visit never took place.
I called the landlords contractor to arrange the remedial work to be completed – missing doors, exposed wires, etc. He visited early November, measured up, made notes, promised to return – but failed.
We spent the most horrendous Christmas and New Year in the house. There was serious damp penetration, black mould which was constantly being removed. Slugs were climbing the walls. The house was very cold and the more that we heated it – the worse the damp became. We telephoned, wrote, sent photographs, yet the letting agent did nothing; there were plenty of replies – unbelievably stating that they were attempting to do everything as quickly as possible. We initially resigned ourselves to getting out of the house at the end of our AST.
In early-February, I wrote the strongest letter to letting agent with photos. A survey was made by Peter Cox, a pretty damning report which agreed with our complaint – serious damp and rain penetration. I wrote again, asking for compensation and a reduction in rent. This was refused. The letting agent had said that the landlord was absent; it transpired this wasn’t the case.
We tracked the landlord down and demanded a meeting. The landlord appeared, agreed with us in full and said that it was the first he knew of the problem. He agreed that we should be compensated and that this was the letting agents responsibility. Our landlord sat in our home, apologising and promised us both that this would be resolved. He remarked how clean we kept the property. The next day he had changed his mind and said that our grievance was with the letting agent. The following day – the EHO (Environmental Health Officer) inspected. That week, the missing doors and exposed electrics were attended to. We sent 2 requests to the letting agent, for the landlords address – these were refused.
A week later we received a section 21 notice to quit. The landlords address was given as c/o a family member in the South – presumably to thwart a legal action by us.
It turned out that the landlord had known of the problems. He’d applied for a grant for roof insulation, in my name – without my knowledge – and prior to our first meeting. It transpired that the letting agents were not members of ARLA or NAEA and we contacted both organisations and Rightmove to get these false affiliations removed. The letting agent claimed an oversight.
We spoke with our MP who has written to the CEO of the local authority, in order to push the EHO. The EHO wrote to the letting agent and the landlord but there was no response. We then began to receive threats from the letting agent to enter the property to inspect and allow viewings; we made a formal complaint to the Police and this is logged with a fast-track number in the event that they continue. We threatened to change the locks and the letting agent replied that this was not necessary.
We defended the section 21 notice on the grounds of incorrect dates and continued to pay the rent. We were not going to be forced out and subjected to costs or inconvenience due to their incompetence. The weather had improved and the house was drying out for the summer and we would tough it out now – having gone through the worst. We have since redecorated all damp affected walls as it is unnecessary to be reminded every day.
Our MP has pushed for resolution; this has mustered a stronger letter from the EHO. There has been no response other than a second section 21 notice. The dates are once again incorrect. The letting agent has put our deposit into a DPS but did not provide the Deposit Protection Certificate or prescribed information until we requested it after five months of tenancy. The prescribed information appears to be incomplete. I doubt that any s21 is valid until deposit is returned and the landlord might be liable for 3x under the Localism Act? Our claim should also be for a reduction in rent back-dated to 11/2012 and should provide compensation for immense stress and upset – particularly to my wife – for the repeated inconvenience, small damage, etc.
We’ve spoken with experts in Landlord/Tenant issues, they’ve seen our file which is very complete and have passed it onto Barristers to evaluate. We have a strong case apparently, but would incur costs of circa £7k to seek compensation/enforcement of duty to repair; we’ve been told that there is little likelihood of being awarded costs – if successful. That’s an expensive ‘point of principle’ for us.
It seems a dreadful situation. We actually like the house and the worst of the problems could be so easily resolved. We must now consider vacating the property before the bad weather sets in again – to remain longer would weaken any case against the landlord and the letting agent. The landlord is inexperienced and his conduct and concern for our welfare has been quite despicable. The promises that he made to my wife and I were instantly forgotten and we would like to do whatever might be done, so that he is taught the lesson.
Please accept our apologies for the long post, is there anything that we could do, other than what the landlord and letting agent expects – that being to vacate and walk away? I feel that someone needs to make a stand here, to create some solid case law if necessary – to protect others faced with similar problems in the future.
Thanks in advance
Roy and Tania
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Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
11:55 AM, 19th August 2013, About 11 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Roy and Tania" at "19/08/2013 - 11:46":
No problem Roy.
I wish I had a property to offer you as you sound like you would be my perfect tenants. I would offer you a Deed of Assurance, something you may wish to run past your next landlords - see >>> http://www.property118.com/the-private-rented-sector-evolution-deed-of-assurance/40949/ as that would be much better for us both as opposed to committing to a long term tenancy. I'd appreciate your views on the Deed of Assurance from a tenants perspective.
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andrew townshend
15:55 PM, 19th August 2013, About 11 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "19/08/2013 - 11:30":
i am not defending this landlord or agent in any way, and am sure this couple would be good tenants for any of us, i just do not understand why they would want to live in these conditions, when there is a way out.
Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
16:06 PM, 19th August 2013, About 11 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "andrew townshend" at "19/08/2013 - 15:55":
Read Roy's last post Andrew, I think he's outlined plenty of reasons there.
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Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
18:34 PM, 19th August 2013, About 11 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Roy and Tania" at "19/08/2013 - 11:46":
PS - I take back what I said about you looking like Kevin Whately. I saw him on TV last night and he's obviously a lot older than you, either that or he's had a much harder life and far more rogue landlords LOL. You do look like him in his younger years though.
andrew townshend
20:07 PM, 19th August 2013, About 11 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "19/08/2013 - 16:06":
i think on this occasion we must agree to disagree.
Roy and Tania
23:19 PM, 19th August 2013, About 11 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "andrew townshend" at "19/08/2013 - 15:55":
clearly our decision hasn't convinced all. Having been fobbed off by a fraudulent LA, we were forced to endure our damp, mould and slugs. Then we were lied to by an immature, inexperienced LL. That focusses the mind. We wont stay here of course, but we will maximise the damage for the LL. He came here, saw the condition of his house under our tenure, knew his rent was being paid in full and decided to listen to the 'advice' he was being given and has now served us with the second s21 - which will fail.
So - to litigation. There isn't an option for us now.
The 3yr AST wouldn't work Mark. It might be ok for the French. I wouldn't want bad tenants trashing my house/upsetting the neighbours for 36months. I also cant imagine many tenants enduring 3yrs in this house for example - it would break a lot of relationships, I am sure. That would be a great shame.
The DoA route seems idyllic. I cant see it working with the 'new age' of LA who seem intent on building so many barriers.. application fees, inventory fees, etc. They are keeping LL/Tenant apart. That's where the French have the upper hand.
I intensely distrust these LA's now. I wish that you guys would find a way to 'go it alone'. It worked for us the last time.
...my tuppence.
Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
23:26 PM, 19th August 2013, About 11 years ago
According to our December 2012 only 43% of our members use letting ants to manage their properties. The letting agents you have described are dinosaurs and will become extinct in time, mark my words, more and more are warming to what landlords and tenets (their paying customers) want. I am aware of several landlords and letting agents who offer deed of assurance. You can sort our member list by GOOD Landlords to find them 🙂
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Ben Reeve-Lewis
6:58 AM, 20th August 2013, About 11 years ago
And here is my tuppence on the subject of move or fight.
Councils have been under much pressure to take out rogue landlords. I take this very personally because I am one of the enforcement officer in a council who are basically being accused of being crap at our jobs.
This pressure is added to by government announcements and most recently, and gallingly my council's own Mayor signing us up to Shelter's campaign.
Shelter point to 11,000+ annual complaints of rogue landlord behaviour, including disrepair matters and a few hundred prosecutions. There are a number of reasons for the disparity, some of them legal and some of them down to staffing levels and resources but do you know what the biggest problem is for enforcement officers? the lack of people like Roy and Tania who are willing to stand up and be counted. Who actually give a god-damn and have not only the moral indignation but the concern for other renters, not to mention the sheer gumption to make a stand and inconvenience themselves further.
That their council seem to be letting them down and not backing them to the hilt, forcing them to pretty much go it alone is shameful. If they were my clients I'd have their landlord in the stocks by now and seriously thinking of out of court settlements.
Whenever someone comes in to complain to me about harassment or illegal eviction their initial response is righteous anger and a willingness to do whatever it takes to get the perpetrator but as time goes on their concerns move to finding an alternative, their anger subsides, they stop calling and I lose my witness and once again, that landlord who I have tried to get for the same offences 3 times in the last 4 years walks off into the sunset laughing at everyone. Each time the get away with it, it bolsters their view that they are immune from action and can do what they like.
The landlords then talk and advise other landlords in their local community and tell them they too can get away with not complying with the various laws because "The tenants kick for a bit and the council send you threatening letters but nothing happens, just ignore them".
Roy and Tania? You have my sincere support and when you have got a result, make sure you call your local paper and have them run a story on your success, then everyone else in your local PRS community will know about this guy and his agent and it may just make them raise their game. £10,000 worth of damages can sober a man up I find.
Roy and Tania
11:07 AM, 20th August 2013, About 11 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Ben Reeve-Lewis" at "20/08/2013 - 06:58":
In order to obtain accuracy for our LBA (Letter before action) it's necessary to itemise the EHO's subsequent involvement. We have written asking that he update us on his actions to date. We asked the EHO to view on 28/2/12, it appears that he has written one letter. The LA/LL took 2 months to reply and there has been no further action.
Received today:
"The letting agent indicated that, following discussion with the property owner, it was their intention to serve another Notice to Quit to seek possession of the property and following the property being vacated they would carry out the necessary work at the property. As has been explained in previous communications this is a course of action open to landlords, and should you not leave the property by the specified date then the landlord / Agent should apply to a County Court to seek possession of the property. Any challenge to this is a civil matter and you should seek your own legal advice and representation in any court proceedings that may ensue. As advised previously legal advice should be sought at the earliest opportunity and not delayed until Court summons are received.
The dispute between the two parties is not something the Council can become involved in."
..and all of this is after an intervention by our MP, letter to CEO of the authority and the usual 10 day response from the authority that they will enforce. It is indeed no surprise Ben, that so many tenants give up.
Ben Reeve-Lewis
11:31 AM, 20th August 2013, About 11 years ago
Yes it’s a double bind though in reality Roy. Tenants give up because councils don’t support them and many officers I know don’t take a case forward because the tenants give up haha.
I entirely disagree with the council’s statement there “The dispute between the two parties is not something the council can be involved in”. They could if they chose to.
I hate to get really legalistic and risk starting another angle to this but I note that the council’s letter also states “Following the discussion with the property owner, it was their intention to serve a notice to quit”.
This may carry a suggestion of retaliatory eviction to it but I recently came across the case of Chapman v. Honig (1963). Mr Chapman was Honig’s tenant and he was called to give a testimony n a case involving another tenant. Honig served notice on Chapman as a result. The courts found that the landlord had served notice to punish and victimise his tenant and awarded damages to Mr Chapman.
The landlord appealed but Lord Denning dissenting in the case said “It was the duty of the court to ensure that he was not punished for doing so. It followed that, where the landlord had victimised his tenancy by giving him notice to quit ‘… the court must be able to protect the tenant by holding the notice to quit to be invalid”
The greater article on this is here http://laghousinglaw.com/2012/08/13/retaliatory-eviction/ Written by Housing QC Andrew Arden, who ends the article “There can be no legitimate aim in evicting someone for exercising their statutory rights; evicting someone so as to frustrate the exercise of that right is – in our view always illegitimate“
Put plainly your landlrod broke the law and the contract in not carrying out the repairs, you exercised your legal right to challenge this and he responded with a notice, which effectively interferes with your statutory right to seek redress.
Admittedly Arden can often get on his hobby horse but I always think his views on this hold some water. Maybe worth mentioning to your solicitor, although he may just laugh at the notion. Sorry if this all sounds like legal bollocks but it is the world of the landlrod and tenant I'm afraid