Police damage to rental property

Police damage to rental property

7:22 AM, 9th May 2014, About 8 years ago 56

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Police broke into one of our tenants homes by smashing the door to get in but discovered no evidence and did not charge our tenant. Police damage to rental property

The tenant has said that they have done nothing and don’t know why the police raided them.

The police say “the tenant has been mixing with the wrong people” is that a crime?

Who is responsible for the repair cost – or is it Muggins!


Mark Page


Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118 View Profile

9:19 AM, 10th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Jonathan Clarke" at "10/05/2014 - 00:53":

Hi Jonathan

I wouldn't necessarily evict on the basis that my tenant was a criminal. I would if they didn't sort out any damage caused by the Police bashing in doors though.

Also, if it became known to me that my tenant is/was a criminal my insurance could become void if I didn't share this information with my insurers.

Jonathan Clarke

9:32 AM, 10th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mick Roberts" at "10/05/2014 - 08:46":

Exactly Mick . Only two days ago I asked as a standard question on my application form - have you got any previous convictions/ cautions. I can usually tell when they lie which is more damming to them from my point of view than if they tell the truth. If they lie about their past they may lie about other stuff but if they come clean they feel better and i can put it in the right context. Everyone wants a roof over their head

He said - yeah well erm to tell the truth mate I`ve been inside for GBH. I said oh yes tell me more. 10 years ago he got into a scrap in a pub and lumped someone with an ashtray. He learnt his lesson from that. But I admired him for his honesty rather than trying to brush it under the carpet.

His rent money was as good as the next persons - He got the house and I joked about as well as the no pets clause i might add - no ashtrays allowed on the premises lol . He was well handy with the trades so again i joked as part of his community service the wooden windows need stripping and painting. He happily agreed . Saves me a job is the way i see it and builds his confidence and his continued reintegration into society.

I took on a class A drug dealer who had been inside. He was in danger of going down the same road again when he got out with no job no house. Easy for him to slip back into the same rut Instead i gave him a flat and he now gives voluntary lectures to the police on how to stop and search people like him for Class A and all the tricks of the trade. He also acts as my `bodyguard` if I got a dodgy incident to deal with and i need a bit of back up. Well I`m not as young as you Mick - my bones are starting to ache!

Flexibility is the key.

Jonathan Clarke

9:37 AM, 10th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "10/05/2014 - 09:19":

Hi Mark

That`s a fair point about insurance and disclosure. Complex area. I wonder whether the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act plays a part here. Interested in an insurers view on this

Mervin SX

9:51 AM, 10th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Jonathan Clarke" at "10/05/2014 - 09:32":


Your profile speaks quite highly of yourself but not some of your responses to this article. My point is, getting a tenant to do maintenance works in your property, which you should be getting done and needing a 'bodyguard' for dodgy incidents, paints quite a bad picture of you!

If I were you, I wouldn't boast of these attitudes in an online forum. Because there are a lot of landlords out there who get on with their business without the need for their tenants to do them a favour...

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118 View Profile

10:05 AM, 10th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mervin SX" at "10/05/2014 - 09:51":

If you were aware of the market that Jonathan operates in you might have a better understanding. Jonathan is a Samaratan, he will take tenants coming out of prison and others living on park benches in order to give them a home and a fresh start in life.

He helps them to get their dignity back by involving them in the shaping their future as opposed to giving them everything on a plate.

I suspect that Jonathan is a very good judge of charachter based on his life experiences but that doesn't make him right every time. Some of his tenants will no doubt relapse and it is for this reason that on occasion he may require a bodyguard.

I suggest you were a little quick to reach a conclusion about the man I know Jonathan to be. I've never met him but we have spoken on numerous occasion over the years via this forum and others. He works at the opposite end of the social spectrum than I do and I could never do what he does. Nevertheless, I find his posts intriguing and I have great respect for him.

Please note that this forum isn't a personality contest and we do not tolerate personal attacks. If you have a question by all means ask it. The mission of Property118 is to facilitate the sharing of best practice.

Thank you 🙂

Mervin SX

10:11 AM, 10th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "10/05/2014 - 10:05":


I have no intention to get into a personality attack, but I just didn't think Jonathan was sharing best practice!

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118 View Profile

10:21 AM, 10th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mervin SX" at "10/05/2014 - 10:11":

Understood, hopefully my post addresses the balance and puts Jonathan's comments into context. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to do that 🙂

PS - my perception of Jonathan and Mick is that they are kindred spirits in many ways.

Jonathan Clarke

12:21 PM, 10th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mervin SX" at "10/05/2014 - 10:11":

Hi Mervin

I do paint a colourful picture i agree. Its a bit of an artistic licence I guess and I try to make it interesting reading but you are right to challenge it though as to whether it is best practice.

It may be hard to work out my persona from just these few posts but I thank Mark for supporting me with that vote of confidence. My market is very niche but my methods are law abiding and have a very grounded logic and I like to think a practical problem solving approach.

To put it into context somewhat - . I from an investment perspective go for in the main high yielding high cash flow ex local authority properties. These attract the LHA market. The tenant profile is sometimes hard core and require close management.

For the last 10 years of my working career I worked with young offenders in the field of restorative justice. I facilitated meetings between young offenders and the victims of crime. I saw the devastation that young people bring not only on their victims but ultimately on themselves and their parents. So I worked with young druggies/ shoplifters/ gbh`ers / sexual offenders / fraudsters etc etc .

Their parents were often at a loss with what to do with them. Sometimes the parents( if not often ) were part of the problem. I helped them out. I steered them in the right direction. I am a trained mediator, facilitator and counselor.

I put these kids on various programmes to keep them out of prison. I got them to paint the fences of their victims / repay the money they stole / put them on drug programmes. etc . It was very rewarding for me for the victims for the offenders and their parents. The aim was to repair the harm caused to all that were affected by the crime. The success rate is high compared with the traditional adversarial court process. Re offending was reduced.

Property investing has given me the root to riches but has also enabled me to combine my skills of my then day job with management of the hard core LHA market. I give people a free range to do virtually what they want to do in my homes. I dont force them to do it but they cannot believe how laid back I am about it. They chose the wallpaper. They chose where to hang their pictures.

The more freedom I give them the longer they stay and the more secure they feel. I give them a house and they make it into a home. They add emotional value to their lives and they add often add materially value for me . I have had new kitchens. bathrooms etc for free.

I have just had a complete refurb for free. Its taken 2 months

Many tenants have been with me over 5 years. They upgrade and downgrade and move estates. They come to me and want to stay with me because the traditional agents wont house them and they think I`m a good ol boy.

Its a symbiotic relationship . I have my freedom and i give them theirs.

The bodyguard comment probably gives the wrong impression and it was a bit of showing off 🙂 . But if someone is about to lose their home because they have not accepted the conditions of the AST and are not working with me despite being given every opportunity to do so - Then it helps to take someone along with you to mainly act as a witness to a sec 21 or sec 8 but also yes for self preservation. If they are agitated they may easily revert to their sometimes primitive behavioral patterns. i.e. they go off on one!

I have lost or let go well over 50K in rents over the years as i bend over backwards to not evict if rent doesnt come in. I give them budget plans which they sometimes keep to but sometimes dont. A heroin addict will say to my face. Pay you tomorrow Mr Clarke - promise . But for them tomorrow never comes. Its todays fix they are worried about . So there comes a time when you have to part ways. I give them every chance to help themselves but sometimes we have to say goodbye. I havent got charitable status and I need to feed me and my family first and foremost

So I`m no saint but like Mick we get on with it and make our money where other people fear to tread. But if I can buy a house for 100K and get virtually the same rental income via LHA for a 200K one then thats the model for me.

Ive shown around 100 investors my patch who are interested in my model and they have met my tenants. They look at the figures and get excited . They look at the area and some get cold feet, some invest and get me to manage, and some get in and get their own hands dirty themselves. Good luck to them. I accept its not everyone`s cup of tea. But boy the money is good

I hope this explains a bit more about where I`m coming from but feel free to challenge my operating methods and my business model. Thank you

Mick Roberts

12:58 PM, 10th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Jonathan Clarke" at "10/05/2014 - 12:21":

I get some tenants offering to do stuff in their homes too, that some would say ‘U should do this Mick’ But if they want to do or pay for this or that-Should I be stopping them?

Some of my tenants do me favours, as I do them favours, one being a home where they want, where a lot of Landlords wouldn’t entertain ‘em-Cause they’re not the perfect tenant-They’d fail every check going at a Letting Agency.

I have the same same story, housing a woman with 6 kids in a 2 bed house, choosing her over a woman with 1 kid. Some Landlords that don’t understand the bottom end of the LHA market say ‘can’t do that’. I say ‘Oh, you’d leave the woman with 6 kids homeless then?’ Both homeless, which is worse? Not nice, it’s the market me & Jonathon operate in.

I too have had kitchens for free-why not? I’ve had many smashed up, so why not get a few back for free as well?

I did a post on here about a year ago, where tenants did bunk, left house full of rubbish, new tenants offered to clear all rubbish for FREE-because they wanted the house SO SO badly. I got slated by some of the posher Landlords that don’t understand our LHA market.
These ‘posher’ landlords wouldn’t take our tenants-Does that mean me & Jonathon call ‘em? No, because we all work different with different tenants.
I admire Mark’s way of working, still renting out houses, bringing in income, yet all week, seems to be having a good time. I don’t call him for this, I’d like some of it, & in time, may move slightly upmarket myself too. But Mark being the ‘posher’ Landlord, also understands our ‘crap’ & how we work. He don’t want to do it ha ha, but he can see how it works for Landlord & tenant.
All different, & getting worse for tenants at lower end too. Less houses, less council houses, more lower end tenants that have no choice. And if I can give ‘em some’at they want, we’re both happy.

Without the service me & Jonathon operate, there’d be a lot more homeless people out there. We ain’t the solution, but we solve a very small percentage.

And I have the same from my mates & Landlord mates too, they see how I work, but most of ‘em wun’t want the hassle. As I’d imagine 90% of the Landlords in this forum wouldn’t.

Colin McNulty

8:47 AM, 11th May 2014, About 8 years ago

Loving the comments on here, especially Jonathan's and Nick's. Where's your area Nick?

Anyway, getting back on topic, one landlord I know has told me that he's given a master key for all his properties to the local police, exactly to get round the problem of them kicking in his doors. What do people think of that as an idea?

He also uses this as a vetting process when interviewing potential tenants, and tells them the police have a key to their door, and asks them if they have a problem with that. This helps to weed out those undesirables who intend further criminal activity.

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