Noisy landlady at night keeps teacher awake?

by Readers Question

14:15 PM, 11th January 2015
About 5 years ago

Noisy landlady at night keeps teacher awake?

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Noisy landlady at night keeps teacher awake?

My daughter rents a room in a 2 bed flat in Hove, the other room is the landlady’s room. My daughter is a teacher and although fun loving does like some sleep ideally between 11:30pm & 6:30am at least Sunday-Thursday!

Her landlady has on more than 20 occasions brought a man back, been very noisy, loud music playing, etc and ignored my daughter’s requests for consideration. She has tried talking to her landlady, clearly my daughter will be room hunting again very soon, but has to give one month’s notice and in the meantime needs some sleep.

Any suggestions or advice please – can she deduct any rent as she is having to stay at quieter friends when she has an extra busy workload.

Charlotte Noisy



Comments

Londoner 43

1:01 AM, 13th January 2015
About 5 years ago

Hi Charlotte,
I find some of the replies here confusing. If you daughter shares a property with the landlady, she is not a tenant but a lodger. (Unless the property has been divided into two properties, with their own front doors.) Lodgers have far fewer rights than tenants. Why does she not look for another house- or flatshare? I presume she would have to give one month's notice to her current landlady,as is fairly normal for these kinds of agreements. Alternatively,she should have a proper discussion with her landlady, explaining that she needs to be able to sleep during the night. As this is unlikely to work out, best just start looking for a new place.

Mandy Thomson

9:47 AM, 13th January 2015
About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Londoner 43" at "13/01/2015 - 01:01":

Hi Londoner 43

Yes - assuming the AST that Charlotte mentions her daughter signing isn't an agreement made directly with another live out landlord - her daughter is a lodger and not a tenant.

Yes, lodgers do have much less rights than tenants, but that is not to say they have NO rights. Lodgers have a contract with their landlords, that runs both ways - as has been mentioned, that contract binds the landlord to provide quiet enjoyment (i.e. peace to live in the property free from harrassment and disruption). If a lodger landlord isn't fulfilling his or her part in that contract, a lodger is as much entitled as any other party to recompense for the rent they've paid.

However, as I said above, in practice, so many lodger agreements are made in such a casual haphazard way that proving any wrong doing, and even that there was an agreement in the first place, can be near to impossible.

Charlotte says her daughter signed an AST, so even though this isn't the right form of document for a lodger, it does prove that the let took place, and a lodger agreement will be implied. Therefore, if her daughter does want to claim some of her rent back through the small claims court, she can.

Rent for a room isn't simply small change - it starts at around £350 pcm, and in the inner London zones, can be as much as £700 pcm. To most lodgers, even £300 pcm is a lot of money.

Ian Narbeth

9:15 AM, 15th January 2015
About 5 years ago

Dear Mr James
I have been away for a couple of days which is why I have not responded to your post sooner. As you have said, you are not an expert. The statement of yours that I criticised is indeed nonsense. It is plainly wrong for the reasons I have stated.

It is tedious to find on public forums people saying "I am not an expert" and then going on to express legal opinions that are just wrong. It is a waste of time for others to read them. It is not unprofessional of me to state the truth. I earn my living and have done for 30 years giving legal advice.

I have indeed engaged with what was said by the original poster. Her daughter does have legal rights and I have told her about them. There are many cases where people obtain legal redress in similar circumstances to those described. Your counsel of hopelessness is defeatist and unhelpful.

Mandy Thomson

10:22 AM, 15th January 2015
About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ian Narbeth" at "15/01/2015 - 09:15":

After being a lodger and a landlord, and doing a years research on renting from the perspectives of a resident landlord and a lodger for my website on this subject, I get really fed up with "Lodgers have no rights under Section 3A(2) of the Protection From Eviction Act 1977" simply being interpreted as lodgers having no rights whatsoever, even by people who are lodger landlords or letting agents themselves, who therefore ought to know better.

A lodger paying rent is not simply like a mate staying over who's outstayed their welcome. If you turn up to register for a prebooked hotel room, and are then told that room isn't available, are you simply going to just shrug and walk away? You may not have protection from eviction in your occupation of that room, but I doubt you would consider you had no rights whatsoever!

While a lodger may sometimes have a permanent home elsewhere, the room they rent is often their only home.

Sharon Betton

13:03 PM, 16th January 2015
About 5 years ago

My son has a lodger, so I checked everything out fairly thoroughly. A deposit surely does not need to be protected where there is a resident landlord? This is a license, not a tenancy.
Like the suggestion of noting everything down in writing - the landlady really may not realise how often this is happening or the full affect it is having on your daughter.

Mandy Thomson

15:29 PM, 16th January 2015
About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Sharon Betton" at "16/01/2015 - 13:03":

Hi Sharon,

That's right, a lodger's deposit isn't subject to the same deposit protection legislation that deposits taken under ASTs are, and as such doesn't require protection. However, unless a lodger causes damage beyond normal wear and tear, fails to pay rent, or should substantially disrupt the lives of the other occupiers in the property, that money is still the lodger's property, and it's therefore good practice to keep it in a separate account.

Mandy Thomson

11:45 AM, 17th January 2015
About 5 years ago

Charlotte, reading through your post again, I've just had one last thought, but maybe not one you or your daughter is going to like...

Live in landlords often resort to making life difficult for their lodgers - by being a nuisance, making unreasonable demands or even taking away rights they've already granted - because they simply haven't got the courage to tell them that it isn't working and they want to end the agreement. Sometimes this might be done subconsciously.

Having someone else living in your home can be tough, especially if you haven't made a clear agreement about either party's needs first. First time resident landlords aren't always aware of how their life is going to be affected by having someone else living there, as they have no prior frame of reference, and unfortunately, there are other landlords who couldn't care less about the lodger's needs as long as they get the rent money...

It's obvious that your daughter and her landlord are incompatible, at least where living together day to day is concerned, with very different needs. Perhaps the landlord will be more than happy to let your daugher have a rent refund or reduction, so your daughter can move out and give her back her freedom.

philip allen

14:05 PM, 17th January 2015
About 5 years ago

If the landlady was living there when your daughter moved in she is a lodger, therefore, an AST is not the correct contract. In addition a lodger's deposit does not need to be protected in a deposit scheme.
For further information on this Shelter and Spare Room would be able to advise the best way forward from a legal aspect.

Puzzler

10:54 AM, 18th January 2015
About 5 years ago

Everyone these days blocks out unwanted noise and listens to their own through headphones. You can also buy earplugs. She should just move as soon as possible. There may be a website where she can put a review of the tenancy and/or she can inform whoever she found it through.

Jan Martin

13:20 PM, 20th January 2015
About 5 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ian Narbeth" at "12/01/2015 - 12:24":

I would of thought that a lodgers agreement would of been signed .

If you take a lodger into your home and you take a deposit my understanding is that the deposit under this situation does not need to be protected .

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