Do I evict brother with section 8 or 21 and do I offer tenancy to sister?

by Readers Question

10:51 AM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

Do I evict brother with section 8 or 21 and do I offer tenancy to sister?

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Do I evict brother with section 8 or 21 and do I offer tenancy to sister?

I have a tenant who is now more than 3 months rent in arrears. AST start date 6th August 2013. I issued a S8 AND S21 (and delivered and witnessed) on 5th November 2014 – he now owes more than he did – do I need to reissue the S8 ? He will not respond to me.

His sister moved in with him sometime last summer, with her 10 year old. He is almost never there. She has asked him if he will surrender the tenancy and he shouted at her and said no. He has told the Council that he moved out in January last year – and tells them she is responsible for the CT.

Provided she is referenced by my agent, I would be happy for her to take on the tenancy.

I protected his deposit when he moved in with MyDeps and registered it with Mydeps as a Statutory periodic on 5thFeb last year.

Would you guys recommend I use the S21 or S8 or both now to issue proceedings? Which online website can I use to apply for S8/S21

Thanks

Allbankersarebarstewardsbrothers and sisters



Comments

Neil Patterson

10:55 AM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

I will leave the issue of section 8 or 21 to my more learned colleagues, but I am concerned that if you take on the sister you will end up with the brother being an issue again through the back door.

One to think carefully about.

Also did you add the Sister to the tenancy back in the summer?

All BankersAreBarstewards Smith

11:05 AM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

no the sister is not on the AST - she has no legal status at all - hence her stress.

Neil, tell me what you speculate the "back door issues" might be please.

Neil Patterson

11:11 AM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

Ah you seem to have the sister as a tenant not signed up on the AST, which she should be.

The same could happen with the brother again in reverse. I am just concerned that this could get messy and end up needing the help of our friends from Landlord Action!

All BankersAreBarstewards Smith

11:14 AM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

I didn't know she was living there till late last December !! yes it could get messy.

Sarah Pajger

12:00 PM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

I am just going thru the same situation with boyfriend moving in and not on tenancy agreement. I've issued s8 and s21 but it's imperative you serve these with the correct dates and info or your case may be thrown out of court. I'm using landlord action and they have ensured im serving correct info for a speedy eviction. If in doubt use the professionals since the law is complex and on the side of the tenant

Neil Patterson

12:17 PM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

If anyone needs Landlord Action and Paul Shamplina please see >> http://www.property118.com/member/?id=190

Mandy Thomson

14:46 PM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

If the sister wants to take over the tenancy, or at least secure accommodation for herself and her son for the time being, could she not offer to make up the arrears? I'm assuming she isn't in a position to do so?

Her legal occupier status seems unclear. When she moved in originally, she would have only been a lodger. However, if the brother has moved out, and it can be proved it's no longer his main home (e.g. most of his belongings elsewhere, mail going elsewhere, council tax and utilities in sister's name) that makes her a sub tenant.

If you did decide you wanted her out as well as the brother, I would get professional advice as your tolerating and even encouraging her to live there could validate her claim to the head tenancy: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/housing_w/housing_renting_a_home_e/housing_subletting_and_lodging_e/housing_subletting_e/what_happens_if_a_subtenancy_is_unlawful_.htm

If she were to claim local housing allowance, either as a lodger or a sub tenant, she would need to produce a lodger agreement or tenancy agreement made with her brother. These claims are also much more complex if the landlord is a relative, as it's necessary to prove there isn't a contrived tenancy: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/housing_benefit_and_local_housing_allowance/what_is_housing_benefit/housing_benefit_if_renting_from_a_family_member

Steve Masters

16:50 PM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

OP says "...he now owes more than he did – do I need to reissue the S8..."

Why?

When you apply to court submit a current rent account statement (in the correct format) and update it and take several copies with you on the court hearing date. The judge should create a money order based on it.

All BankersAreBarstewards Smith

20:56 PM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

thanks mandy - yes this is a legal dogs dinner. The CT is still in the brothers name. He last paid some pittance of rent in December. I doubt she could pay off the arrears - she is a part time care worker and student. Looking at it from her perspective - why should she pay off her brother's debt? She could spend less money and get a new home - if she could find one.

You are right about the sub-tenancy business... it complicates things....

I am tempted to submit for repossession on line then change the locks once its granted and give her the tenancy if her credit checks/income come back ok.

All BankersAreBarstewards Smith

20:59 PM, 5th February 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Steve Masters" at "05/02/2015 - 16:50":

Thank you Steve - Even if I get a money order, I doubt very much I will ever get anything from him.

Can this application not be done on line with no hearing ?

Would you recommend I use my S8 or S21 notice to apply for possession ?


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