EICR requires full re-wire?

EICR requires full re-wire?

14:08 PM, 6th October 2022, About A year ago 31

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Hello, Our flat in London has failed its EICR with code 2s and 3s. The electrician says it needs a full re-wire.

That’s ok (except that it will cost) as the flat’s wiring is maybe 40 yrs old.

What I need advice on is what, as landlords, is our position?

The managing agent has established that doing the work with the tenants in situ is not feasible and that they are agreeable to vacating the property in spring for 2 weeks.

How long can we wait before starting the work?

If we need them to vacate sooner they ask for a month rent free for two weeks of disruption.

That’s ok so far (except for the loss of income) but they have a lot of furniture (in addition to what we as landlords provide), and a lot of stuff that they say they have nowhere to put.

Our furniture could be moved into middle of rooms and covered.

They expect us to pay for removal, storage and moving back of their stuff. We’d rather not get involved in that.

Are we obliged to do it?

Thanks,

Dana


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Comments

Justin Lee

17:55 PM, 8th October 2022, About A year ago

Hi. As well as being a Landlord I am also a working qualified electrician. 1980's wiring is not very old and should be perfectly serviceable with an up to date consumer unit and any faults in the installation repaired. In short get a second opinion. Good luck.

Dana

12:26 PM, 11th October 2022, About A year ago

Thanks everybody for your replies and advice. I got the age wrong - it is 60 yrs old (flat built in 1960s) and the main failure I think is because of old metal trunking being used as earth and going a bit rusty I guess. These are the fails. There are no test results provided.

4 ) The original consumer unit has been replaced and the existing conduit installation has been compromised. There are no separate circuit protective conductors throughout the installation. The circuits are relying on a connection, via a 10mm cable, between the old consumer unit and the new consumer unit earth bar, to provide circuit protective conductor protection. then via metal conduits throughout. This is not acceptable and does not comply. Circuit protective conductors require to be installed throughout which means significant rewiring. C2
5) Main circuit protective conductor to consumer unit is too small 10mm C2
6) No evidence of earth bonding to the water stop cock F1
7) No circuit protective conductor's installed to circuits throughout installation C2

I am arranging for a second EICR with electrician with NICEIC quals and plenty of reviews on check-a-trade. He’s done a provisional quote on items the other electrician listed for the rewire and it came more than 1k cheaper. He said he’ll look if partial or full rewire is necessary. He will also deduct cost of second EICR from final bill and give us a EICR at end of works. Hope it’s not too good to be true!.
I trust our agent – she’s been looking after the flat for my parents and now us for the last 40 years. I think her electrician is just very thorough and anything a bit borderline goes on the ‘needs to be done’ side. A bad time as we had to refurb the bathroom last year and the kitchen is also 60 yr old!
Dana

PH

12:48 PM, 11th October 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Dana at 11/10/2022 - 12:26
I wouldn't think for one minute it needs a full rewire but you can only go on what the electrician says. Anyway you seem to be heading in the right direction, good luck.

michaelwgroves

8:39 AM, 12th October 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Dana at 11/10/2022 - 12:26
Dana

I would not trust your first electrician, the comments you have listed do not necessarily require a full rewire. The first electrician is a cowboy. He MUST give you an EICR certificate. You should not be paying him if he does not provide a certificate. If you have paid, you should insist on a certificate or your money back. If he does not comply, report him to his scheme. Metal conduit is not a failure, it should be tested to see if it passes. You only know this from the readings. Lighting circuits without a Circuit Protective Device (CPC) would only get a C3 if they have plastic accessories. Metal fittings would be a C2.
Always make sure you get a certificate, that's what you are paying for.

Dana

8:21 AM, 21st October 2022, About A year ago

Has anybody had a EICR fail because the consumer unit is right next to the gas meter? Apparently that is another of the reasons the EICR for our flat has failed! Moving either is seriously expensive. That electrician clearly does not live in the real world! Still waiting for second opinion.

michaelwgroves

8:54 AM, 21st October 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Dana at 21/10/2022 - 08:21
That’s utter rubbish. Tell him to remove from his report, or you will report him to his competent person scheme.
There is no code for this, not even a C3.

Dana

10:33 AM, 21st October 2022, About A year ago

He's put it in as a C3 but now says there are regs that fail it and it has to be moved:
“We would have to relocate the consumer unit, to somewhere else in the cupboard which would involve extending the existing sub main.
I don’t know if there is enough room to do this.
It would obviously involve additional expense and possibly a new sub main back to the electrical intake which would be very expensive.
There is a regulation about distance between electrical services and other services.
There is also a regulation relating to access to the consumer unit.
This installation fails on both counts.”

michaelwgroves

11:32 AM, 21st October 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Dana at 21/10/2022 - 10:33The regulation is for cables, I recall it's 25mm.
I am not aware of a regulation in BS7671:2018. There might be something in the gas regs, but the EICR is not done on those. Ask him for the regulation, it should be put on EICR if that's what he is relying on.
I list all the regs on my EICR so it's never in doubt.

Also ask about regulation for access, this would typically be a C3, so nothing to worry about.

Justin Lee

13:09 PM, 21st October 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Justin Lee at 08/10/2022 - 17:55
As far as I know the regulations state that the gas meter must be at least 150mm away from the consumer unit or any other electrical appliance.

Seething Landlord

13:37 PM, 21st October 2022, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Justin Lee at 21/10/2022 - 13:09
Can any gas engineers say whether this would mean that a gas safety certificate could not be issued?

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