Change of Landlord and s21

Change of Landlord and s21

11:14 AM, 12th November 2014, About 7 years ago 16

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I have just bought a house with an existing tenant. The tenancy was for a fixed term of 1 year beginning on 13 February 2013, and so the tenant has been holding over since February this year. The original landlord served a s21(1)(b) at the start of the tenancy. Change of Landlord and s21

I am wondering if I can rely on that s21 as I am not the landlord named on it, or in the tenancy agreement to which it relates. Do I need to serve a new notice and how do I transfer the tenancy to me as landlord in order to do this? Conveyancing solicitors on both sides have been absolutely hopeless.

If I do have to serve a new notice, should I rely on Spencer v Taylor and use s21(1)(b)?

A last question, where can I obtain a template for a rent authority letter?

The seller’s solicitor promised to provide one on completion but hasn’t yet done so, and the rent is due in a few days. The seller, who has fallen out with his solicitor, is prepared to sign such a letter.

Very grateful for any help!

Thanks in advance



by Penelope Poore

14:32 PM, 12th November 2014, About 7 years ago

Thank you everyone. I tried to get this information from my conveyancing solicitors - big local firm - but to no avail.

by Michael Barnes

15:47 PM, 12th November 2014, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Romain " at "12/11/2014 - 14:10":

Then I am confused; please would you explain.

My 'understanding' is that there are three (possibly four) ways that one can get to a periodic tenancy:

1. The contract is for a fixed period and does not mention what happens when the fixed period ends; it then becomes a Statutory Periodic tenancy.

2. The contract is for a fixed period and states that it will become periodic when the fixed period ends; it then becomes a Contractual Periodic tenancy.

3. The contract has no fixed term and is periodic from day one; it is a Contractual Periodic tenancy.

4. (possibly?) There is no written contract; periodic from day 1 and becomes Statutory Periodic.

1 and 2 seem to be treated the same under 21(1)(a) of 1988 act, whilst 3 and 4 seem to come under 21(4) of 1988 act .

From my reading of your post you appear to be talking about case 2 and saying that there is a grey area,

by Recardo Knights

16:10 PM, 12th November 2014, About 7 years ago

Hi Joe,
You may have to look up serving a S21 in the archives, it was a big discussion on this site about a year ago, why serve a S21 during a fixed term.

I don't really understand your post, if you serve a S21 during an AST it doe not expire so no need to serve it again when it rolls on to a periodic.

in my opinion the reason to serve it during the AST is timing and proof. If it is served during the tenancy the tenant will sign a copy so no problems they did not receive it. If you forget to serve the notice 2 months before the end of the tenancy, more complications.

I now serve a S21 at the start of a tenancy, I tell the tenant that I want a long term tenant 2-5 years, but because of the tenancy laws that go against landlord that need possession of their property, I find it practical to serve notice now. I also let tem know that as long as they abide by the tenancy agreement and look after the property it will not be enforced.

Never had a problem with a tenant signing a S21 at the start of AST and all my tenants are now in their periodic term, some for 2 years after an original 6 months AST

by Joe Bloggs

16:30 PM, 12th November 2014, About 7 years ago

hi recardo,
i too serve s.21 at commencement of tenancy. my query is that how can that still be valid and relied upon after the date for possession in the notice has long since passed and a SPT having replaced the fixed term as in the scenario of the OP above. i must be missing something. thats why i said what is the point of serving a notice during the SPT if the initial expired s.21 is still reliable. surely it cant be relied upon as a new tenancy has been created by the SPT, the date for possession has long since passed and presumably the tenant could argue the defence of equitable estoppel. hope that makes sense, even if it is wrong!

by Romain Garcin

18:47 PM, 12th November 2014, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Michael Barnes" at "12/11/2014 - 15:47":

Hi Michael,

If in case 2 the wording of the agreement is akin to what I mentioned earlier ("fixed term continuing periodically" or similar) then there's a single tenancy. To me it's the same as saying that the tenancy is periodic but must run for a minimum number or periods.

In such case, I don't think that s.21(1) can apply because it specifically states that the (fixed term) tenancy must have ended, which is hasn't.
(Assuming that's the very first tenancy agreed between the landlord and tenant).

Your case 4 does not exist, btw.

by Recardo Knights

18:57 PM, 12th November 2014, About 7 years ago

Hi Joe,

I've learnt a lot from this site and this sort of question keeps coming up ''serving a s21'', best look through the archives or as Mark and more experienced landlords. Only going by what I've read and the fact that s21 does not expire. It does say possession is required on the ''day after'' eg 1st Jan 2015 end of ASt, so if it is now 1 April it still applies. there is no challenge, you want possession so that it.

On a periodic LL has to give 2 months notice, a tenant 1 month. I believe and would like others to put me right, if a s21 is served during the AST, then goes to a periodic the notice of 2 months no longer applies and notice of whatever time is up to the LL.

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