Unintended benefit of removing s21?
In response to Mark Alexander and others regarding the pros & cons of the Renters Rights Bill, there may be a potential pro.
The removal of the s21 Notice, that the landlord WISHES to regain possession of their property, will backfire on government intentions and on tenants previously “evicted” under s21.
How? I hear you asking.
No landlord evicts for no reason/“no fault”. There is always one or more reasons.
The proposed publicly accessible Landlord Register/Database is not only to include a landlord’s name and address, even if they use a letting agent, but IMPORTANTLY, how many evictions that landlord has carried out. So….
Do the proposed s8 Grounds cover ALL the reasons that tenants have been given their marching orders?
If so, then not only how many evictions need to be noted, but also the s8 Grounds for each eviction. eg Eviction 1: s8 Ground 1; Eviction 2: Grounds 8, 11, 13 & 17 Eviction 3: Ground 6 etc etc etc
However, if the proposed s8 Grounds are not comprehensive enough, then PRS landlords need to compile additional reasons/Grounds that we need to be able to use/could be used and urgently send to MPs and members of the House of Lords. ie property damaged by pets; property unreasonably damaged by kids etc etc.
Listing the s8 Grounds used for EVERY eviction could be useful as a warning to prospective tenants, ie this landlord is not someone who will roll over.
And a warning to tenants, previously “evicted” under s21 and asking for a landlord reference, s8 Grounds May now need to be listed future reference.
Just a couple of thoughts.
Judith
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Member Since September 2018 - Comments: 3508 - Articles: 5
8:42 AM, 22nd July 2025, About 9 months ago
Reply to the comment left by Frank Jennings at 21/07/2025 – 22:10
a reference check on the potential guarantor will tell you all you need to know in the main.
As a LL it’s of little concern to me if they get stung by a tenant they were happy to financially back.
Member Since September 2021 - Comments: 104
8:55 AM, 22nd July 2025, About 9 months ago
Reply to the comment left by Reluctant Landlord at 22/07/2025 – 08:42Yes, that’s very good advice. Do the reference check too of course on the Gaurrentor. However before you do, its best to let them know what they are taking on. They often don’t realise what it might cost them, and you might save them and yourself from a lot of grief and trouble, not to mention the fees for the reference checks.
Sounding them out also looks good to the Judge when they claim they can’t afford it, and didn’t understand how it might end. Shows you to be a responsible, caring LL and not the villan we are often painted by others.
Member Since October 2024 - Comments: 49
9:23 AM, 22nd July 2025, About 9 months ago
Reply to the comment left by Reluctant Landlord at 22/07/2025 – 08:42
Reluctant landlord is spot on.
The consequence of the Renters Rights Bill will be large numbers of recalcitrant tenants with CCJ’s ,at least another million homeless people and more council bankruptcies.
The government will impose more taxes on those who remain and raise the pension age to 75as the NI system has been insolvent since 2000.
These things including the 17 million housing shortage ,refusal to 3D print houses or use construction robots means a permanent housing shortage for the next 150 years.
This favours the new large landlords ,the Lloyds Bank and Legal and General subsidiaries ,Black Rock and established tax efficient landlords with more modern houses.
The rest of small landlords will have to move into other businesses or tax efficiently redeploy their capital offshore into other assets.
The overall effect will be no go zones rampant with crime in large cities like Birmingham ,Harehills in Leeds and on sink estates in places like Luton and Stevenage.
More rural areas like mine in Hertfordshire will remain sanctuaries of calm with security cameras,personal vigilance and Ring doorbells as backup.
The traditional small landlord will like Captain Mainwaring of Dad’s Army,old fashioned bank managers and cheerful Dixon of Dock Green style policemen ,fade into folk memory .
As a breed they have to change and adapt or be put out of business.
Member Since September 2018 - Comments: 3508 - Articles: 5
9:44 AM, 22nd July 2025, About 9 months ago
Reply to the comment left by Frank Jennings at 22/07/2025 – 08:55
I seriously beg to differ. The legal emphasis is on the prospective guarantor reading up and taking responsibility themselves to find out exactly what this means before they agree and sign a guarantor form.
The LL only checks to see if they can stand (financially) as a valid guarantor.
Member Since September 2021 - Comments: 104
10:59 AM, 22nd July 2025, About 9 months ago
Reply to the comment left by Reluctant Landlord at 22/07/2025 – 09:44Well that is all true, and getting your legal facts correct is essential of course. However there has been instances in the past where a gaurrentor has refused to payup, and it has to go to court for a judge to decide. The gaurrentor often claims they didn’t understand their responsibilities and/or that they were not told how it could end up. Some claimed that they are now pensioners and couldn’t now afford the bill they are faced with. All these mitigating circumstances often have an effect on the judges decision. I’m just pointing out the pitfalls. Whether you agree or not, does not sway the judges unfortunately. Covering all your bases can help and costs nothing, and could save you a fortune. Its your choice, of course, its up to you.
Member Since February 2024 - Comments: 64
5:53 PM, 23rd July 2025, About 9 months ago
No doubt it will be agains the tenants “rights” to list them on a database like this, even though in the real world trying to take any action agains most tenants to recover any costs is almost impossible, despite there being a process to do so, you can win and they simply don’t pay, and all you can do is spend more time, effort and money taking them back to court – and they won’t pay that either!
Member Since September 2018 - Comments: 3508 - Articles: 5
10:03 AM, 25th July 2025, About 9 months ago
Reply to the comment left by Frank Jennings at 22/07/2025 – 10:59
I agree. Having a guarantor is one thing, getting them to pay is quite another…
Member Since July 2013 - Comments: 1996 - Articles: 21
11:16 AM, 25th July 2025, About 9 months ago
Reply to the comment left by Frank Jennings at 22/07/2025 – 10:59
We have pursued numerous guarantors successfully. If a guarantor does not pay, issue a money claim online. If the guarantee has been properly drafted and there are rent arrears, it is straightforward and there is no defence. Not having money or being a pensioner is not a mitigating circumstance.
The advantage of having a guarantor is that the guarantor puts pressure on the defaulting tenant either to sort their finances out or to surrender the tenancy and leave.
I have not had to take a guarantor to court. However, if the guarantor is a person of substance (i.e. worth suing) they should be concerned that their credit rating will be damaged and they might have the bailiffs round or, if they are working, an attachment of earnings order made. Hoping that a softy judge will excuse them is a risky business, especially as the judge’s incorrect judgment can be appealed.
Member Since September 2021 - Comments: 104
1:14 PM, 25th July 2025, About 9 months ago
Well I know the legal framework is there, and in theory you can sue a gaurrentor for the back rent and costs etc. of the tennant, but legal history tells a different story. There was the judge who decided that as the claimant hadn’t done due diligence on the finances of the gaurrentor, then the claimant was neglegent and therefore not entilted to any rent arrears payment. In short the gaurrentor was a pensioner and had no money. Ever tried to get money from someone that hasen’t got any money? What you going to do about that little conundrum? Stamp your feet and protest to the judge? I think not. It would do you no good anyway, even if you did.
If the gaurrentor is effectively broke, then you are not getting your money, no matter who says differently.
Yes you can get a money order, a judgement, even a CCJ, but it dosen’t make any difference, if they still can’t or won’t pay you. You will just be throwing good money in court costs after bad, trying to get your rent arrears that’s owing to you. Damaging their credit rating is hardly going to help things, when they have no money and are living on their pension. They don’t need or want credit anyway!
I understand your points you made and I agree with most of them, but suggesting you can always get a LL’s rent arrears for him is misleading. You say you have won numerous
cases, but how many have you lost? And how many LL’s have got their rent arrears paid in full with costs? And how long did it take? Its an expensive business to chase people through the courts. The fees are ever increasing, and there is no gaurrentee you will ever get any of it back, even if you get a judgement, a CCJ or whatever the Baliffs can get, its going to cost you a lot of money to pursue. The courts are blocked with cases up to a years worth, and beyond and life is too short.
I suggest a LL does due financial diligence on their gaurrentor and make sure they are (and will be in the distant future), worth suing, if or when the time comes.
Member Since February 2024 - Comments: 69
8:27 AM, 26th July 2025, About 9 months ago
Thank you for an interesting view of the abolition of S21
But if the government is thinking of publishing my personal name and address, instead of the addresses of the properties I own, my next step is to apply for assylum in another country myself! Why should I put myself in danger from some of the people that rent…I’ve been physically and mentally harmed enough by some of my ex-tenants, who have delibertaely harmed me already. It’s as if government think we are not human!!!