How Many Landlords do Legionnaires and Annual Gas checks on their own homes?

Reply to the comment left by "Rip Doff" at "23/04/2017 - 15:34":

And what would your letting agent know about Legionairres disease ?
There are about 330 cases annually and the department of Public Health figures suggest 10% are attributable to residential property.
Do the math.

Reply to the comment left by "Gary Nock" at "19/04/2017 - 00:21":

There are other risks, such as Dead legs, infrequently used outlets etc. You can't remove these but you can and should, according to HSE, give your tenant information on the risks and their method of control.
Get a copy of my letter - information to tenants of ;
http://www.LandlordsMasterclass.com with my compliments.

So even on those figures that's 33 cases a year from residential properties of which 10% (?) are let properties, so that's say 4 a year. That's the maths. So out of hundreds of thousands of rental properties there's 4 cases a year. Although every case is terrible it hardly justifies such legislation when they can't properly enforce things like basic standards for let properties, gas safety,etc. Another bureaucratic burden for landlords (sorry, the new bankers) from the politics of envy and class war. If they really cared the test would be compulsory for all domestic properties including council stock .. oh, thought not.
(I don't expect the letting agent to be expert, it was an indicative enquiry)

Reply to the comment left by "Chris Daniel" at "23/04/2017 - 20:39":

Chris, thank you for your offer- I see you are a training provider for legionella training courses. My background is that in addition to being a letting agent I am also a former designer of hot water systems using both cold water storage tanks, heat only boilers, and combination tanks. And in my risk assessments I set out control measures for the tenant as per HSE L8 to manage that risk. I appreciate that many landlords or agents may not have the necessary experience and knowledge to do what I do as part of my managed service and would need your services to do so. Some Letting Agents and landlords are still unaware of the requirement to carry out the legionella asssessment. But I reiterate my initial comment that if you have the right knowledge and experience as a landlord or agent and apply that to HSE L8 then you can do the risk assessment.

Reply to the comment left by "Rip Doff" at "23/04/2017 - 20:50":

Where do you get 10% of 33 from as proportion of let properties, as this figure is not known by Public Health Authority. I accept that 33 is a low figure, and as YET, no landlord has been prosecuted. My contact in Public Health tells me they are planning to look more closely into residential cases.
Question to ask is, Does your Landlord Insurance cover Legionairres disease, and even if it does, they wont pay out hat would be a 7 figure claim for a death. ( I'm a consultant for one Insurance company. As Clint E. Would say, ... Do you feel lucky 😉

The figures are 'guesstimates' to make the point about there being much more common issues where their focus should be, gas, electrical safety, etc.
Excellent question re Landlord insurance, which should be given more visibility. I'm going to check my cover.

Reply to the comment left by "Rip Doff" at "24/04/2017 - 16:57":

You know what insurance companies are like. If there was any let alone a sizeable claim, they would look to see if you've followed the L8 document to the letter.
What I have done is extract all the requirements ( in L8 ) and put them into editable Risk Assessments, Written Scheme of Control & an example of a schematic diagram for a residential property. Its like anything, not hard - when you know how to do it. I would never 'over-egg' the relatively small number of cases annually. I just provide easy method for compliance - by those who want to.

What a load of nonsense. You dont need contractors to do legionella assessments.
Please see link below. Its directly from the hse's own website and it addresses leasing agents misinterpretation of the rules thereby placing unnecessary burdens on landlords.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting/2015/case357-consultants-letting-agents-exposure-to-legionella.htm

Don't pay anyone to carry out these assessments. It's basic stuff.

From the hse's website:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/legionella-landlords-responsibilities.htm
ease Risk systems Legionella and landlords’ responsibilities

What you must do
The practical and proportionate application of health and safety law to landlords of domestic rental properties is that whilst there is a duty to assess the risk from exposure to Legionella to ensure the safety of their tenants, this does not require an in-depth, detailed assessment. The risks from hot and cold water systems in most residential settings are generally considered to be low owing to regular water usage and turnover. A typical ‘low risk’ example may be found in a small building (eg housing unit) with small domestic-type water systems, where daily water usage is inevitable and sufficient to turn over the entire system; where cold water is directly from a wholesome mains supply (no stored water tanks); where hot water is fed from instantaneous heaters or low volume water heaters (supplying outlets at 50 °C); and where the only outlets are toilets and wash hand basins.

A simple assessment may show that there are no real risks and are being properly managed and no further action is needed. It is important to review the assessment in case anything changes in the system.

Implementing simple, proportionate and appropriate control measures will ensure the risk remains low. For most domestic hot and cold water systems, temperature is the most reliable way of ensuring the risk of exposure to Legionella bacteria is minimised ie keep the hot water hot, cold water cold and keep it moving. Other simple control measures to help control the risk of exposure to Legionella include:

flushing out the system prior to letting the property
avoiding debris getting into the system (eg ensure the cold water tanks, where fitted, have a tight fitting lid)
setting control parameters (eg setting the temperature of the hot water cylinder (calorifier) to ensure water is stored at 60°C)
make sure any redundant pipework identified is removed.
The risk is further lowered where instantaneous water heaters (for example combi boilers and electric showers) are installed because there is no water storage.

From the hse's website:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/legionella-landlords-responsibilities.htm
ease Risk systems Legionella and landlords’ responsibilities

What you must do
The practical and proportionate application of health and safety law to landlords of domestic rental properties is that whilst there is a duty to assess the risk from exposure to Legionella to ensure the safety of their tenants, this does not require an in-depth, detailed assessment. The risks from hot and cold water systems in most residential settings are generally considered to be low owing to regular water usage and turnover. A typical ‘low risk’ example may be found in a small building (eg housing unit) with small domestic-type water systems, where daily water usage is inevitable and sufficient to turn over the entire system; where cold water is directly from a wholesome mains supply (no stored water tanks); where hot water is fed from instantaneous heaters or low volume water heaters (supplying outlets at 50 °C); and where the only outlets are toilets and wash hand basins.

A simple assessment may show that there are no real risks and are being properly managed and no further action is needed. It is important to review the assessment in case anything changes in the system.

Implementing simple, proportionate and appropriate control measures will ensure the risk remains low. For most domestic hot and cold water systems, temperature is the most reliable way of ensuring the risk of exposure to Legionella bacteria is minimised ie keep the hot water hot, cold water cold and keep it moving. Other simple control measures to help control the risk of exposure to Legionella include:

flushing out the system prior to letting the property
avoiding debris getting into the system (eg ensure the cold water tanks, where fitted, have a tight fitting lid)
setting control parameters (eg setting the temperature of the hot water cylinder (calorifier) to ensure water is stored at 60°C)
make sure any redundant pipework identified is removed.
The risk is further lowered where instantaneous water heaters (for example combi boilers and electric showers) are installed because there is no water storage.