How Many Landlords do Legionnaires and Annual Gas checks on their own homes?

“…. and where the only outlets are toilets and wash hand basins”

How many properties do NOT have mixer showers?

Also, lots of properties with dead legs, cold and hot water storage.

Case 357 is specific to water sampling and testing, which no decent assessor will demand. Unfortunately some quote this in relation to the Risk Assessment, which is not the intent of the publication.

Reply to the comment left by “Donald Tramp” at “27/04/2017 – 19:46“:

… ” where the only outlets are toilets and wash hand basins ”
Donald, So I take it none of your properties has a shower ???
The very short except you’ve got off the HSE web site is very misleading to landlords, and is used by them, and some quite larger Landlords groups I may add, as an excuse to justify Not doing a risk assessment or giving information to tenants.
I’d go further and assert that its actually Conflicting with the 98 pages of L8 and the Technical guidance.
For example, it makes no reference to Dead-legs, infrequently used outlets ( guest bedrooms ) Hose pipes / outside taps.
Its not my intention to critique HSE’s conflicting guidance,as I point this out a few times in my course.
Ultimately, and finally from me on this subject in this forum, if you wish to rely soley on the short guidance document from HSE and ignore what I’ve said about information to tenants ( and other landlord organisations have said about giving tenants information about risks and managing them ) – then please continue doing nothing,

Reply to the comment left by “Jireh Homes” at “27/04/2017 – 20:38“:

Yes your right, case 357 is about the mistaken notion that HSE have confirmed that water TESTING is Not required. – ( in Residential property )

[ Do not read ‘and risk assessments ‘ where this is not the case and hasn’t been said in case 357 ]

Reply to the comment left by “Jireh Homes” at “27/04/2017 – 20:35“:

Your absolutely right again ( can you have a word with Donald for me please 😉

Reply to the comment left by “Jireh Homes” at “27/04/2017 – 20:35“:

The risk from shower heads is minuscule. Clean them!
This is health and safety taken too far with some people looking to profit from it.
I have done my own assessment of my properties and consider them to be low risk.

Reply to the comment left by “Chris Daniel” at “27/04/2017 – 20:49“:

Chris, I think I’ll listen to the HSE rather than someone peddling courses that the HSE say are not required!

From the HSE’s own website….
Myth of the Month
Case 357 – Some consultants & letting agents misinterpreting landlords responsibilities regarding legionella risks to their tenants

Issue
Some consultants and letting agents are using the revised L8 ACOP to suggest that new legislation has been imposed on landlords of domestic rented properties for managing and controlling the risks of exposure to Legionella bacteria of their tenants. This is wrong, the legislation has not changed and misinformation/misinterpretation can impose unnecessary financial burdens on landlords where they are being charged for legionella testing and certificates they don’t actually need.

Panel opinion
There is a legal duty for landlords to assess and control the risk of exposure to legionella bacteria, but Health and Safety law does not require landlords to produce or obtain, nor does HSE recognise, a ‘Legionnaires testing certificate’.
Legionella testing (or sampling) is generally not required in domestic hot and cold water systems and then only in exceptional circumstances.
Misinterpretation of the legal requirements by some consultants and letting agents about landlords’ responsibilities to manage and control legionella in domestic premises may result in unnecessary financial burdens being placed on landlords and tenants.
The law is clear that if you are a landlord and rent out your property (or even a room within your own home) then you have legal responsibilities to ensure the health and safety of your tenant by keeping the property safe and free from health hazards.

Section 3(2) of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (HSWA) makes provision for relevant health and safety legislation to apply to landlords to ensure a duty of care is shown to their tenants’ with regard to their health and safety.

HSE has published guidance for landlords, free to download from HSE’s website:

Legionella and landlords’ responsibilities
Legionnaires disease FAQ’s – As a landlord, what are my duties?
HSG 274 – Legionnaires’ disease – Part 2: The control of legionella bacteria in hot and cold water systems PDF – Paragraphs 2.138-2.146

HSE Case 357 is specific to “water testing” and goes on to confirm a risk assessment is required. Where the landlord is competent, then they may carry out (and document) the assessment. Many landlords do not have the knowledge, training and experience and thus prefer to contract the service.

A good assessment will also address other risks such as scalding which in practice is a much more common event, rationalise the conflicting guidelines on hot water temperature and make judgement calls on non-compliances with Water Regulations.

Concur risks are reduced where mitigation action taken, hence the issue of control guidelines to tenants (and landlords). Agree risk from clean shower heads is low, which is why maintaining clean is just one of the control guidelines.