HMO appeal assistance please

HMO appeal assistance please

9:00 AM, 31st January 2019, About 3 years ago 6

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I have had to appeal the council squashing my HMO application. First their inspectors came and measured the room sizes and said they were adequate.

Then I asked planning and the neighbours all wrote letters saying the noise movement of 5 people etc would cause lot a of disturbance.

Along with that they also claimed I had bats, rats and foxes in garden! Barnets agent came to check it out and said no such thing clearing the garden.

I’ve done everything I can think of so I would appreciate any advice you can give to help my appeal succeed and wondered if anyone else had been through the process?

Many thanks.



by James Barnes

11:36 AM, 31st January 2019, About 3 years ago

It's hard to know on what grounds the Council have refused your HMO Licence Application based on the information you've provided.
HMOs with less than 7 occupiers don't usually require planning permission unless there is an Article 4 Direction in place.
Wildlife in the garden isn't a relevant consideration in terms of HMO licencing decisions so I'm not sure what the issue is here either.
I think you'll have to provide a bit more information on this!

by AA

19:15 PM, 31st January 2019, About 3 years ago

Re noise issues. Put down noise insulating underlay and carpets if wooden flooring. But really, do 5 young people really make more noise than 1 mummy's little brat?

by Yvette Newbury

9:58 AM, 2nd February 2019, About 3 years ago

I reported foxes living in an overgrown garden close by our property and the environmental team at the council called me to confirm that foxes were not considered a pest. Likewise bats are not. Rats are I agree, but the other two you mention are definitely not.
I am confused as to why they would have rejected your application based on the points you mention. I would be calling them to ask for clarification on why they have rejected your application. Would it be possible to speak to your neighbours individually to find out their concerns? If it is noise based on the number of occupiers you might be able to overcome their objection by eg. fitting carpets or thicker underlay to dampen it. However I have never heard of an objection based on this to be the only reason for the rejection.

by allen lagnado

20:56 PM, 2nd February 2019, About 3 years ago

reason for refusal 1 the proposed change of use of a single family dwelling house for which there is a known demand and fails to provide evidence to robustly demonstrate that the proposal meets an identifable need for HMO form of accomaodation in the local area .THe proposal introduces a use within an area of low accesibility at odds with with the prevailing area of the localityharmful to the amenity of the areaqand contrary topolicies CSNPPF,CS%of the adopted local plancore strategy 2012, policies DM01,DM08 and DM09 of the adopted development management policies DPD 2012 and adopted development management document-residential design guidance 2016 2the proposed development by reason of its lack of scaled floorplans and elevations to demonstrate it meets with the minimum internaql floorspace requirments and achieves satisfactory outlook for occupiers,would therefore fail to provide a satisfactory standard of accomodation and outlook for the occupiers contrary to policies CS NPPF,CS! and CS5 of barnets adopted core strategy 2012 policy DM01 and DM02 of the adopted development management policies DPD2012 the adopted sustainable design and construction SPD 2016 and the adopted residential design guidance SPD 2016the proposal to convert the property from C3 single family dwellinghouse to C4 hmo will harmfully increase noise and disturbance to adjoining 153 and 157 through associated general activitythe conversion will result in an over intensive use that will have an adverse effect on residrential amenity, contribute in a change in the function and character of the street and be out of character with the established settled residential pattern contrary to policies CS1 etc as before

by allen lagnado

21:14 PM, 2nd February 2019, About 3 years ago

ps tghere are no bats and if there were rats the foxes would eat them but since the house has no food why would there be rats the main neighbour 157 tried to get me to rent to her daughter and husband i showed them that then the house was without electricity was changing all 1928 wires and no water changing lead pipes for copper and when told the price it would be when finished they went the house is detached 1m 500cm away from either side the 157 keeps dogs for when people are on holiday their barking is load but i never complained she on the other hand complained about any noise tyhere are 10 hmos in this road which is close to railway bus and tube . the room sizes were checked by hmo to be larger than their directivesthere are 2 to let boards for whole houses and probably lot more without boards so family house demand is low in this area i have an hmo round the corner 5 mins away which i rented since 1988 got hmo licence before they changed the rules 2016 tyhat did not need planning permission now council puts planning to block hmos but one of the hmos in this road was given in 2017 there is no expansion needed as aqll dining room and lounge are to be bedrooms the plans had scales and anyway hmo department had come to measure up and this was told to planning officer also all houses in this area are identical and surely council knows room sizes its all obsfucation bye

by Colin McNulty

8:57 AM, 5th February 2019, About 3 years ago

I'm afraid you need the advice of someone who's an expert here Allen, as there are many issues you need to sort out. Not least the one that licensing and planning are nothing to do with each other.

You may get planning through, but be denied a HMO license.
You may get a HMO license, but be in breach of planning.

If indeed the room sizes are inadequate then it looks like you've bought the wrong house. On what basis did they make that judgement / against which standard? How big are the rooms? How many people are you trying to fit in? Do you have a living room? Are the rooms en-suite? Are you trying to count the en-suite rooms as part of the room size?

Also I have no idea why you're putting in planning for a C4 HMO, there's permitted development rights to automatically convert from C3 to C4, unless... is this in an article 4 area where that right has been removed?

I'm afraid this is a complex area and you need someone experienced to sit down with you and go through all the factors and issues, which will likely take hours to work out, and days to resolve. This is not something you're likely to get resolved on an internet forum.

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