Brexit effect on BTL?

This is one of the biggest questions we are likely to face in our life time. Are you informed enough to make a conscious decision, absolutely not. I don't know, you don't know and they don't know!!!

It is frightening is the position Cameron has put the UK in. We have no hope of being sufficiently informed in the 4 months lead-in to the referendum. (The scots had 7 months for a far less complex decision). Cameron is also making us vote on the basis of his so called 'special status' he claims to have negotiated which the European Court can tear up after the referendum. (Not that his 'special status' is in anyway 'special'). So we are going into a referendum were the goal posts move. Whats the point in that? This whole referendum is a charade. Yet another devastating example of this governments naive, ill informed and absurdly pathetic decision making. They really are an absolute joke.

Well thanks all - I've almost kind of nearly decided to maybe vote in possibly! Ugh. On balance-ish though I think that IN is the way to go as far as BTL future. Hope so anyway. Cheers.

I am very worried about Brexit for a lot of reasons.
Part of my work involves the export of high technology goods, and it's a relief when the recipient is in an EU country because the bureaucracy really is very, very much easier.
My employer is involved in a lot of EU partner technology initiatives. These provide a lot of work and stable income as they tend to be long-term. Those projects above all keep our bright young things highly skilled and at the forefront of technological development.
Thirty years ago the talk was all about the demographic time-bomb. The fear was that there would not be enough workers to support state pensions. This concern has gone away due to the removal of compulsory retirement, increased state pension ages and most of all, an influx of young, skilled and semi skilled workers from other countries and Europe especially.
A surprisingly high number of my friends have retired to Spain, France or Bulgaria; or have second homes or holiday lets that bring in an income and they intend to move to in due course. Some spend the winter in the UK and the summer abroad. I would rather like to do that myself. Some of those people - mostly the oldest, are not going to be allowed to vote; yet they are very directly affected. Where's the fairness in that?
More than half my tenants are; or have been, from EU countries. These people are young, bright, upwardly mobile, ambitious and make great tenants. Some will move on to bigger and better things here or abroad. The ones that stay share our values and will integrate within a generation.
Some of my friends work in professions that require "equivalence". This is an agreement that their skills and experience is recognised as legitimate qualification for work in the EU. It takes years to negotiate equivalence and it is not without opposition from self interested groups in those countries. It is highly unlikely that those people will be able to retain equivalence after Brexit.They will lose their jobs and businesses.
I have been to China. There, Britain is portrayed in the press as a stupid, irritating little country that tries to punch above its weight and is best ignored. Europe on the other hand is respected as a major power and significant international player.
Within Europe we are in a position to pull strings and influence global affairs. We are treated as a big cheese and feel like it too. Outside it we are on our own. A bit like Iceland.
We have one of the strongest economies in the world, high employment, an internationally respected legal system, envied educational system, equality, a good record on human rights and London is an international powerhouse. That's why lots of people want to come here. We managed all that inside the EU. Why do we assume that had nothing to do with it? We can't. Because we don't know.
The European Court of Human Rights is supposed to be a bad thing that stops us standing by our own decisions (or our incumbent government's). But I can only think of two out of thousands of cases that hit the news for being undemocratic. One was the right of a country to deny prisoners the right to vote. OK, that should have been up to us, but it would have been very good to have had a proper national debate about the matter so we all understood what the arguments actually are. The other was about a radical cleric that we wanted to deport to face trial in a middle eastern country. Eventually he got deported anyway and then was found not guilty. What a waste of money and newsprint!
George Osbourne feels like a bull in a china shop to me. I didn't vote for him and he needs moderating. Just like any other politician who doesn't think through the consequences of their ideologies. Our best hope is the EU. If the EU judge his actions against landlords to be unfair, what's the betting that their judgement will just be overturned anyway after Brexit? That's the point of it isn't it?
Britain is made up of four very different countries. If England votes for Brexit and any one of the others doesn't, it will create discord and conflict and could well lead to the break up of the UK.
What is the vision for post Brexit? Anti-EU people seem to come from different perspectives. Racists, liberals, anarchists, libertarians, little-Englanders, meritocracists, socialists... they all interpret Brexit through their own tunnel vision. Just like those who glimpsed "freedom" a few years ago in Egypt. It's not so easy when everyone sees it from a different perspective.

Reply to the comment left by "Dixie Dean" at "24/02/2016 - 21:28":

I agree. I haven't any real clue. No one really knows. It would take me years to get up to speed and even then it would be still be a sketchy template of a view. I will wait until the morning of the June 23rd to make my decision. I will just listen and absorb in the meantime.

What I do love though about the way we govern our country is that we have the freedom to debate the issue and not be suppressed. In some countries we would be put in jail for some of the views which have been and will be expressed.

In or out of the EU I`m just thankful and glad I live here.
.

Reply to the comment left by "Alison King" at "24/02/2016 - 22:47":

Hi Alison.
I think you've written the most persuasive argument I've seen. You should send it in to the newspapers, actually, as it makes a lot more sense than what we hear from the politicians. I was veering towards OUT but I'll have to read your piece a few times and I may change my mind. I think it is a human tendency to think that the grass is greener and that anything is better than what we currently have. That's how even feminists took to the streets of Iran to depose the Shah and ended up in the veil under the Ayatollah Khomeini. Sometimes it is better the devil you know.
Also, C24 has changed everything for me. I used to think that the European Court was just an annoying, interfering body and that we British were far more logical and fair and could manage our own political and justice system better on our own. I no longer think that as I now see the invidious, cynical, lying, corrupt nature of many of our politicians - proclaiming that black is white - so we may now need the protection of the European Courts just as more overtly corrupt countries like Spain, Italy and Greece, do.

Alison your points are well moderated and presented. (And ones I fully agree with). Regrettably, I doubt the country will be gifted such a well presented sensible position from any political quarter in the next 4 months. I firmly believe we need to stay in the EU. However, other than my gut telling me this, I have no balanced informed position to conclude such, and neither will the public come June. The outcome will boil down to a gut instinct by people on the day. That's not democracy, that's just stupidly at the behest of this government.

Brexit

I wonder I wonder if some miss the point,
Trying to get strangers to run their own joint
To make the decisions, laws and all rules,
Anyone looking would think we’re all fools

Can we not steer our nation, we’ve run from the start
Have we let sense and pride all but depart?
Can we not run a thing without help from abroad?
From the unconcerned bureaucrats who must be all in accord

From fishing to bananas sold at a stall
They’ve banned or regulated just about all
From the size of our packets to climbing a ladder
All is controlled and we’ve never looked sadder

From Britain once great, to now with no heart
Has long forgotten, where all it did start
When our Navy and forces, battled abroad
To keep us from surrender to invading hoard

When did we our minds surrender
When did we not fight for our agenda
When did we ever, not stand tall
Old soldiers now gone would all appall

The commies in Europe are taking it all
No voting, democracy or choices at all
Never a vote, to get them all out
If your in, its forever, there is no doubt

Taxes and rules from morning till night
For long lost freedoms, we’ll regret not a fight
Old soldiers long gone, would turn in their graves
As the British are turned into euro slaves

This sad situation is clear for a few
As the bull from El Cameron does daily spew
Lies and distractions and migration is fine
But everywhere is heard a continual whine

Wages compression, queues growing long
As demand forces cuts, as newcomers throng
Where is the break point, how will it stop
As the EU insists our borders we drop

Where will these people all eat work and sleep
As open borders to all, we must still keep
How will we provide for their every need
As overloaded services continually bleed

Told we are racist, bigots and horrid
As the bull from El Cameron gets ever more florid
I’ve got a great deal from the Brussels elite
Trust me vote in, there’ll be no retreat

Now if you listen to him, and Corbyn to boot
About what a great deal we get for our loot
You’d better prepare for a shock down the tracks
As detail their rhetoric completely lacks

With Greece on its knees, no jobs and huge debt
Spain is a struggling with no answers yet
Half of all youths left on the dole
Dave’s on a role, but we’re in a hole

There’s no better nation, when the going gets rough
When the lovely old bulldog, gets decidedly tough
When people corral and give all they have got
This nation surrendering? I think bloody not!

So gather your senses and collect up your band
As Blighty needs help, so all lend a hand
Together as Brits we will stand again mighty
Fighting together for what’s good for Old Blighty

I don't think a brexit will reduce the number of people wanting to come here because most come for the opportunities that the UK has to offer, not because it's part of the EU. How many will be stopped at the border through being non-EU is another question?!? So likely no great change to BTL in my opinion.

May not be part of this thread but what does concern me is that if the UK votes out of the EU, the UK will disintegrate. I'm sure Scotland will want to detach to remain in the EU, likewise probably Ireland and who kows about Wales? So I'm voting to stay in!

Oh dear....... The debate has been lowered to nostalgic poems about a long gone empire which would no longer have a place in today's world!!!

Together we stand - Divided we fall

Some thoughts to share. First, about Brexit. For me, the reasons to remain in are all about trade, and untimately the economy. Free trade agreements are very, very hard to negotiate (witness the WTO, or Canada taking 7 years to get a bilateral deal with the EU, As a part of the EU, we collectively have leverage to get good deals out of the Americans. Chinese, etc. On our own, we are a comparative minnow, we'll get bullied, and have to put up with a lot of conditions that we don't like (E.g. allowing the Chinese to dump many more products on our market below cost price)

Just for example of how hard it will be post BREXIT, take negotiating a new free trade agreement with the EU. They collectively hate the fact that we might leave, and the EU commission will want to ensure that we suffer badly having left (otherwise, if we prosper, it will encourage others to want to leave - and they would hate that). Then each country will want it's pound of flesh. The French and Germans will want to crack down on the City - our leading earner of export revenue. The Spanish won't play ball until they have extracted a load of concessions on the future of Gibraltar, the Danes and Swedes will insist that we have to pay in billions each year order to have a free trade agreement, and that we must also maintain free movement for EU citizens, because their friend Norway has to do those things. All of this will take 5-10 years to negotiate fully, during which time there will still be free movement of people from the EU. So the effect on the buy-to-let market will be marginal from that respect. But during all those years of uncertainty, inward investment will dry up, which will dampen down the economy. That ought to keep interests rates low for a number more years - which can only be good for the BTL investor.

So on balance, I feel that BT-letters won't see radical differences for a number of years, but for the long-term sake of the economy, we ought to stick with the EU.