No ASTs but Lodgers Agreements on new HMO purchased?

by Readers Question

11:34 AM, 27th March 2015
About 4 years ago

No ASTs but Lodgers Agreements on new HMO purchased?

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No ASTs but Lodgers Agreements on new HMO purchased?

I have just completed on my fourth HMO. It comes complete with six tenants all professionals and all paying rent happily. However, no ASTs , only a “Lodger’s Agreement” which is a single sheet of A4, and explicitly states on it that no tenancy has been formed by this document.

I am not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. I have ASTs for each and every other room in all my other HMOs and standalone properties. The Lodgers agreement allows for a months’ notice either side, but presumably confers no right of abode on the “tenant” …?

All comments welcome

Ianlodger



Comments

Jo Leverett

17:54 PM, 28th March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "28/03/2015 - 12:46":

Thank you. I think I need to seek further advice before purchasing!

Adam Davies

13:24 PM, 31st March 2015
About 4 years ago

A few of you mentioned that it is not a lodger if the landlord does not live at the property. What would it be then? E.g, a tenant decides to take on another tenant to help pay the rent, assuming landlord is happy with this.

There is the sub-let option, but that is very 'official' for my example. Is there a lodger agreement-equivalent for tenant-to-tenant?

Robert Mellors

13:42 PM, 31st March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Adam Davies" at "31/03/2015 - 13:24":

The six residents are renting a room each in a HMO. They are renting from the landlord of the HMO, not from a tenant of the HMO. As such, they are tenants (or in exceptional circumstances they could be licensees, but not likely in this particular case). If one of the tenants then took in another person to live in the room with him then that other person could perhaps be a lodger as they would be renting from the tenant, not from the owner/landlord of the HMO.

Jo Leverett

14:23 PM, 31st March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "28/03/2015 - 12:46":

Thank you for your replies. I've now found out that has to include planning permission for change of use from guest house, to HMO.. residential? Not sure why as will be holiday lets offering high quality accommodation to local workers coming to area for renewable sector, but longer term contracts.. planning are, apparently, anti HMO's although local delivery plan states, higher quality accommodation is required. So, I'm close to giving up! If you know of anyone who can advise on this would be grateful. Planning departments within Councils are a law unto themselves. There are low quality HMO's with licences and you can't change a guest house, into something of high quality to provide accommodation.. where's the common sense in that. Most guesthouses are offering long term anyway!

Adam Davies

14:24 PM, 31st March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Robert Mellors" at "31/03/2015 - 13:42":

I agree with everything you have said Robert. However, according to Tessa and others in this thread, the new tenant renting from the current tenant would not be called a lodger. My question is, then what would this new tenant be called?

Robert Mellors

16:38 PM, 31st March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Adam Davies" at "31/03/2015 - 14:24":

There is no new "tenant" (lodger/licensee) renting from the existing tenant in this situation so I don't understand where you are coming from with your question. This scenario in the original posting is about a landlord letting six rooms in a HMO, it is NOT about a tenant letting a room in his/her home.

Thus, in this thread, Tessa has not said anything about a tenant letting a room in his/her home to another person, or whether in THAT situation it would be a lodger or not, as that is NOT the situation she has commented on in this thread.

However, for the avoidance of doubt, (in most such circumstances), I believe that if a tenant of a property rents out a room in their own home, then the new person renting the room in the tenant's home would be what is commonly known as a "lodger" (also known as a licensee). The tenant, in relation to his agreement with the person renting the room in his home, in effect becomes the (sub) landlord , so is then meeting the criteria of residing in the same property, so the person renting the room is then a lodger. (However, there are possible exceptions, depending of the circumstances, it is possible for the tenant to perhaps create a different form of occupancy licence or tenancy).

Adam Davies

17:04 PM, 31st March 2015
About 4 years ago

Thanks Robert. My question was hypothetical in trying to understand if it is possible to have a lodger without the landlord in situ, it does not relate to Ian's situation.

Mark Alexander

17:20 PM, 31st March 2015
About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Adam Davies" at "31/03/2015 - 17:04":

If a tenant rents a room in a property, then the person he rents it to is a lodger of the tenant. The tenant may well be in breach of his tenancy if he does this, however, the government want to change that.
.

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