QROPS for property investors living abroad

by Readers Question

9:05 AM, 30th January 2017
About 2 years ago

QROPS for property investors living abroad

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QROPS for property investors living abroad

Does anyone have info on QROPS for property investors in UK who live abroad?

I understand that a UK pension can be transfer to a QROPS (SSAS for non residents) and then you can get up to 65% to invest as you please and the other 35% is pre-determined on what you can invest.

Can you set your QROPS in a different country from where you live, has anyone done this? e.g. live in Germany but set a QRPS in Malta?

Has anyone got any experience on this?

Which country is recommended to set up a QROPS? QROPS for property investors living abroad

Thanks

Margarita



Comments

Mark Alexander

9:08 AM, 30th January 2017
About 2 years ago

Interesting question as I am resident in Malta and have a SIPP, a SSAS and a SIRF (Self Invested retirement Fund) back in the UK.

I've been meaning to look further into QROPS and QNUPS for a while now so it will be interesting to see if others share their research and experiences.
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margarita delaorden

9:40 AM, 30th January 2017
About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "30/01/2017 - 09:08":

Thanks Mark, all,

Please could you listen to this podcast and let me know your thoughts?
http://www.thepropertyvoice.net/property-financing-pension-finance-oh-sht-moment-untapped-resource-pension-funded-property-investments-s3e10/
Apparently with a SSAS or QROPS that Neil Ryder provides you can get 65% of your pension pot to invest as you wish.
Thanks
Margarita

Mark Alexander

10:52 AM, 30th January 2017
About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "margarita delaorden" at "30/01/2017 - 09:40":

???

I'm about 15 minutes into the Podcast listening to the example of the part time lady in her late 40's with a pension pot of £126,000.

He said "if she leaves it where it is it will double in value in two years"!!! Well if that's right, please tell me which pension provider that is with please.

In fairness, despite that silly slip, he does seem to have an interesting structure to investigate further so I will persevere with the remaining 45 minutes.
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Mark Alexander

11:09 AM, 30th January 2017
About 2 years ago

I'm really sorry but I can't take any more.

I'm 30 minutes in and I've now heard that his funds make 20% per annum, the client who came to see him "this morning" has a fund of £160,000 one minute and the next it's £126,000 and that 65% of £250,000 is £100,000.

Whilst I'm sure there's something to be learned about structuring pensions to be able to invest into residential investment property I will not be using that adviser talking on the linked podcast.

The basic structure does seem to make sense, i.e. transfer funds to SSAS which then issues preference shares to Ltd Company which then invests into property. A LOT more research is required though before I would contemplate recommending this structure.

I hadn't realised that SSAS was not regulated by the FCA. The people I will be talking to about this are my chartered accountants and my Private Bankers, both of which have regulated IFA businesses bolted onto their main businesses, professional indemnity insurance and a huge reputation to protect. If I end up recommending anybody it will either be them or the people they refer me to.
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Martin Cadman

17:23 PM, 3rd February 2017
About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "30/01/2017 - 10:52":

Picking up the points in the thread from Margarita's post.

In Malta the investments of a scheme may be determined by the member but must be agreed by the Trustees exercising their fiduciary duty.

There is no pre-determined 65/35 split in Malta regulations. This must be the policy of the provider in question.

Malta has more double taxation agreements than any other jurisdiction where QROPS are established (70). These, on the whole, give taxation rights to the country of residence. Malta is very well Regulated giving the member strong protections.

A QROPS is more like a SIPP than as SSAS (which is an occupational pension scheme).

You can set up a QROPS by a transfer from a UK Registered Pension scheme. It doesn't matter where you live at the time.

All QROPS are QNUPS but a QNUP isn't necessarily a QROPS.

Hope this helps.

Mark Alexander

19:04 PM, 3rd February 2017
About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Martin Cadman" at "03/02/2017 - 17:23":

Welcome to the forum Martin, I have just approved your first comment and noticed that you have a .com.mt email address.

I live on The Strand in Sliema, where are you based?
.

Duncan Parsons

11:53 AM, 8th February 2017
About 2 years ago

Good morning,

I have read the transcript of the podcast mentioned by “margarita delaorden” and I would strongly recommend it is reviewed against UK pension tax law by anyone thinking of using it. I agree with the comments left by “Mark Alexander” and recommend that you work with your existing trusted advisers when investigating the services of any party claiming to be able to help. I am prepared to go on record and say I would not permit this in one of our SSASs or SIPPs.

One of the problems with investing in UK property using a QROPS or QNUPS is taxation, since the overseas pension scheme is an overseas property owner/landlord from HMRC’s perspective in the UK. Taxation could be at a rate of 45% where the QROPS or QNUPS is established as a trust, compared to nil taxation in a SSAS or SIPP.

My companies specialise in property investment in the UK and abroad, administering Self Invested Personal Pensions (SIPPs) and Small Self Administered Schemes (SSAS) for the business owner or entrepreneur.

We are able to offer a UK property investment fund structure for income tax and capital gains tax exempt investment in UK property to both UK schemes and QROPS and QNUPS. The structure is certainly not suitable for everyone. We have relationships with the lending banks and specialist lawyers and advisers to assist clients in building a structure to suite their specific needs.
.

Mark Alexander

12:00 PM, 8th February 2017
About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Duncan Parsons" at "08/02/2017 - 11:53":

Hi Duncan

Sorry but I have had to remove the final paragraph of your comment on the basis that it includes details of your business and a link to your website. Please see our House Rules and Promotional Opportunities page >>> https://www.property118.com/house-rules-business-sponsorship/
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Richard Malpass

12:18 PM, 10th June 2017
About A year ago

Hi Margarita,

There is a lot of wrong information here.

You can transfer a UK pension to a QROPS in Malta. Your pension pot is usually converted to cash, then sent to the QROPS. Once you reach age 55, you can take 30% as a cash lump sum tax-free. The rest of your pension is usually taxed in your country of residence in the EEA, such as Germany. So, your pension would be held in Malta, but only taxed on income in Germany. There would be zero tax on death and your pension would be outside of the UK Tax net, which may be particularly beneficial before Brexit is enacted. You need to stay within the EEA for five tax years after transfer or your pension pot would be subjected to a 25% exit tax.

As far as property, this is a separate issue. Out of three Malta QROPS I am in contact with, only one would even consider investing in a property. The property cannot be residential, only commercial. Also, I don't really recommend it, there would be all sorts of ongoing fees and annual valuations which would be needed.

If you want to hold property, you are better off putting the residential portion in a SSAS and then transfer the cash element to a QROPS to be reinvested in stocks and bonds.

It is a complex topic which requires understanding of all the various Double Taxation Treaties and HMRC's rules. I recommend speaking to an offshore regulated financial adviser or international tax specialist.

Mark Alexander

8:52 AM, 11th June 2017
About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by "Richard Malpass" at "10/06/2017 - 12:18":

Hi Richard

Thank you for posting the above.

As founder of Property118 I am very keen to discuss these matters further with you, and possibly even to promote the services you provide. However, I have had to remove the link to your website as this contravene's our House Rules, which you can read via the link below.

https://www.property118.com/house-rules-business-sponsorship/
.


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